New Japanese fwy capable vs. used Taiwanese fwy comfortable

[dkazzed]

I was awoken this morning at 2:30am and couldn't fall back to sleep when this dilemma popped up in my head.

I can either go with a 2015 Honda PCX150 for CA$4748 (US$3798) OTD or I have an opportunity to purchase a used 2011 Kymco Downtown 300i with 13,000km for CA$4480 (US$3584) OTD. It'll mostly be used for city freeway commuting with an average HOV lane speed of 50 to 80km/h during rush hour next to general lane traffic of 10 to 75km/h.

The average right lane speed and occasionally even middle and left lane speeds average 90 to 100km/h during non rush hour due to drivers not complying with keep right except to pass laws. Speed limit in the city is 80 to 90. I'd keep out of the HOV lane during non rush hour. I would say less than 2% of area drivers are aggressive. I'm expecting to do some highway cruising on 80km/h limit minor highways once or twice a year and have no problem keeping off the rural freeways with an average right lane speed of 110km/h.

PCX150:
-Perfect size more suitable for the urban environment.
-Freeway capable, rush hour freeway comfortable.
-Better riding position including fairing feet forward positioning but less comfortable seat
-I like the style
-I love the touches and details Honda's put into this. Truly a great value.
-Excellent fuel efficiency
-Brand new with warranty

Downtown 300i:
-Better power
-Freeway comfortable at all times.
-Better seat that's extra wide and comfortable but poor fairing feet forward position (very high and cramped). Default feet flat foot position is comfortable.
-The one she's selling has heated grips already installed
-I love the sporty style
-Price works a bit better for my budget
-1 hour labour for valve clearance inspection vs. 2.5 for the PCX.

Which one would you choose? I'm highly drawn to the PCX150 overall, but the Downtown 300i wins points on reserve power and style though it loses points on riding position.

I'm not considering the Forza as my preferred dealer sold the last 2014 which was $1,000 off at $5,399, which would've required my to finance anyway which I highly prefer not doing. The new PCX and used Downtown fits my cash budget.

Poll added, up to my expected purchase time period of mid March and can be changed. If choosing other, please explain one that will fit my cash budget and my wants.

Thanks, fellow members!

[Glasseye]

I tested a Kymco 250 for Cycle Canada a few years ago and wasn't impressed with the build quality compared to typical Honda.
Nor was the drive train silky smooth like the Ruckus I had under similar conditions for a few months.
A carbureted unit, it was very thirsty, burning more fuel than my riding partner's Suzuki 400 twin (not a Burgman).

Not sure about the Kymco Downtown's real world fuel economy, but it sounds like more than you need for mostly urban work.

I've yet to ride a PCX, but probably will when I'm in the Lower Mainland next month. Can't wait, honestly.
New is good. Who knows what's happened to the Kymco during its 13K kms.

Highway performance will be important for your commute, as it will for me here in SE BC.
That will be the deciding factor for me. Is it safe at highway speeds? Everything else about the PCX just rocks, IMHO.

Happy shopping.

[dkazzed]

The Downtown 300i is a quality unit, not Forza good but definitely better than the Mainland Chinese products. The Downtown has been owned by a member of a local scooter forum for over the past 2 years and has full service records.

The Downtown has electronic fuel injection and has fuel consumption numbers similar to the Forza, about 3.3 to 3.7 L/100km. Which is roughly the same as what I get in my 2004 Yamaha BWS50 two stroke carbureted and am happy with other than the severe lack of power.

I don't like the plastic covered handle bar in the Downtown vs. exposed handlebar in the PCX.

Let me know when you're in the Lower Mainland, I'll come take a look with you. Hopefully I'll have passed my MSA by then.

[SECoda]

I test rode the Downtown when I was buying my Forza 300. At 5'11" it was clearly too little leg room for me. A new seat could probably fix that. I liked it a lot besides that but I think MRSP was $100 more than the Forza. Neither bike had ABS that I tested here in the US. For regular freeway driving I would go 300 cc. I rarely take the PCX if I am going above 55 mph/88 kmh. Too much wind/gust effects on highway with so little weight. Now the Downtown is lighter than the Forza.

[Valiant]

Go with the downtown, and maybe look at aftermarket seats/mods to alter the riding position.

[dkazzed]

Some things to think about.

I have no issue with the Downtown seat whatsoever as it is Forza comfortable, nor do I have a problem with the extremely spacious foot floor. At 6'-1" with a 32" inseam, I have about 3 to 4" of free legroom in front of me. The only issue might be that my knees are elevated an inch.

You know how the fairing foot rest naturally rises up in the Forza and PCX150? It's elevated about 8 inches in the Downtown for some odd reason. Most people agree that putting feet there awkwardly raises the center of gravity of the scooter, and it's not very comfortable anyway.

Perhaps it won't be an issue whatsoever. I have to test ride both to see which one suits me better. If during a noon hour test ride the PCX can comfortable ride a faster wide open city freeway, I'll take the PCX. If it can't, I have some thinking to do.

[you you]

This weeks motociclismo has a good review of Spain's top selling scooters if anyone is interested

[dkazzed]

Side note, Kawasaki liked the Downtown 300i enough to rebadge and slightly restyle one to their own Kawasaki J300.

[SECoda]

If you are comfortable on the Downtown for an hour or so I think it is a good bike. I actually test rode it twice and had it out for about 30 minutes the second time at the dealer's prompting. My brother owns two Kymcos - an Agility 125 and a side-by-side on a farm and really likes them.

Kymco has made some Honda stuff in the past but yes on the Kaw's and some BMWs.

[Mel46]

I am biased. I bought and rode a used Burgman 400. The cost was $3700 for a 2006 with 2 miles on it. I had zero problems with it and put 8500 miles on it before I traded down to a pcx 150 so that my wife and I could be more equal in our riding, and because much of our riding was in town, with quick turns in for coffee and to cut through alleyways.
The 400 had no problem running with traffic on the freeway, with top end between 85 and 100. I never ran it over 85 mph and that was to pass a truck on the freeway. It did that quite well. Burgman owners are very loving of their bikes. Even if one has 10,000 miles on it, you can bet it was pampered and cleaned often. The engines on them can go 75,000 to 100,000 miles with just normal maintenance if taken care of. The change between model years was not much till 2007, when they revamped the bike and boosted the cc from 383 to a full 400cc's. My 2006 did not have abs, but did have duel disc brakes. Something worth thinking about.

[homie]

You really have to laugh... perhaps neither if you can't get comfortable

[Valiant]

To be fair, it's not like the PCX is meant for taller riders either. In my eyes, the Kymco seat looks comfortable in the same manner that the Forza seat just looks comfy to me. Not comfy enough? Get an aftermarket seat.

Frankly my butt gets sore after half an hour, so I'd applaud the guy for spending 4 hours on the saddle, I sure as hell couldn't do that if I was lying on my couch.

I wouldn't fuss over fuel efficiency, I'm only getting 83 mpg currently. It's not fuel efficient unless you stay off the freeway, and even the Kymco could get some respectable numbers with inner city riding.

[gn2]

Definitely has to be the Downtown.
A PCX just isn't fast enough.
The raised forward footrest sections on the Downtown are intended for a child seated in front of the rider.

[dkazzed]

Kymco has less aftermarket support though while the PCX almost has a cult following that could rival the Ruckus. I love the seating position of the PCX and while I didn't love the seat at first, it's at least equal to my BWS which I am able to ride 3 hours a day no problem. But I do definitely need to ride whatever I'm considering for at least 2 hours as my butt is picky. I had a brand new Corolla I had to get rid of after a year because of poor seat support that caused me to go numb as little as an hour in, though they are super plush and comfortable that first half hour. My Mazdas on the other hand with firm seats I can drive for hours and hours.

Honestly I've been very happy with my BWS' 63 mpg. If I got a bit more power with 83 mpg I'd be happy. If I got a lot more power with 63 mpg I'd also be happy. I don't want less than 63 however.

The 400 had no problem running with traffic on the freeway, with top end between 85 and 100. I never ran it over 85 mph and that was to pass a truck on the freeway.

lol for the longest time I only did 85 once in my Mazda just to try it out. But driving to Disneyland last summer I pretty much did 85 to keep up with the flow of traffic on the I-5, and get there in a saner amount of time.

I see quite a few 04-06 Burgman 400s for sale from the mid 2000s to low 3000s. I'm just worried about what I saw was 6 hours labour for valve clearance inspection. How often did you need yours adjusted? I'm also not very fond of the styling but for the price I could live with it. I've always liked the BMW like gauge cluster however. The seat is about on par with the Forza which is nice, while the riding position is also good. I'd also consider the Yamaha Majesty as well.

But I would prefer waiting closer toward when I'm ready to buy to see what's on the market. I know the seller of the Downtown 300i and she's been in no rush to sell her bike so that's the only reason I'm considering it.

[Valiant]

Kymco has less aftermarket support though while the PCX almost has a cult following that could rival the Ruckus.

Okay, but would you be okay with:
A) Barely being able to stay at 100km/h at full throttle with no reserve power.
or
B) Sticking a big bore kit in your engine and possibly causing reliability issues later down the road?

You should bear in mind that the top speed can be less due to uphill inclines and headwinds.

If your actual highway cruising speed is 80km/h(and nobody tries to run you over for that) and that's not just the speed limit, you ought to do just fine with the PCX.

Honestly I've been very happy with my BWS' 63 mpg. If I got a bit more power with 83 mpg I'd be happy. If I got a lot more power with 63 mpg I'd also be happy. I don't want less than 63 however.

Have you looked at 250cc motorcycles? Most of them are easily capable of getting you in that fuel consumption range while giving you the power you need. I only bring it up because price seems to be an issue, and those are typically the most common.

[dkazzed]

If your actual highway cruising speed is 80km/h(and nobody tries to run you over for that) and that's not just the speed limit, you ought to do just fine with the PCX.

During rush hour, traffic rarely hits 90 in the fast HOV lane when it opens up. If I work late and go home past rush hour, doing 90 on flats and 80 up hills in the right lane is fine, that's what I do in my car lol. The average spacing of exits is 2 miles here and freeway traffic is a lot more respectful than on the crazy city streets I deal with daily on my 50cc.

Have you looked at 250cc motorcycles? Most of them are easily capable of getting you in that fuel consumption range while giving you the power you need. I only bring it up because price seems to be an issue, and those are typically the most common.

I thought about them. The reason I'm leaning towards scooters is that they're city friendly. I often go on lunchtime rides to grab lunch or something and don't want to have to spend 5 minutes putting all my gear on just to ride around downtown vs. riding around on my scooter in a suit and tie like a boss, unless it's raining that is. Then I usually don't bother going or just walk instead.

I do appreciate the honest opinions from real PCX owners like you. I am still very much on the fence at this point. I really just need to start test riding scooters.

[gn2]

You can ride a motorbike in a suit too.
Its also the wrong attire for a scooter.
Hitting the ground hurts just as much whether you fall off a bike or scooter.

[SECoda]

Pictures are better than my words. Good find.

You really have to laugh... perhaps neither if you can't get comfortable

[you you]

Pictures are better than my words. Good find.

You really have to laugh... perhaps neither if you can't get comfortable

Almost perfect. Seriously?

[SECoda]

Move that seat back about 2" further back and I think it would work for me. I wouldn't argue if they wanted to go 3". It has other features that top the Forza IMO. The CVT on the new ones is just as smooth despite some comments I have read. I like the lighter weight (maybe 70 lbs or so) than the Forza which made it a bit faster on the road accelerating. I have good close-by multiple dealer support.