What are your positives/negatives about the Forza?

[you you]

This is a response from a fairly normal size N.American (6'3")
Good:
It's a Honda.


It has some trade-offs which are expected on a scooter that is made for the short Asian & European rider - the primary customers of scooters:

The too-close 2-step seat (you'll never convince me that the passenger likes flopping around up there...it was a lousy design trade-off to get the space under the seat. Put a sleek top case on as standard to solve that.)

The Bad:
Haven't found any.

The Embarrassing:
"Oh my gosh - somebody get Kiko in here! We're selling a scooter in N. America with a one-off tire on it!"

The Unfortunate:
The (2) grumps & wize-acres from the British Isles who freq. this forum.
(like a lot of us - because they are so predictable, when I see either of their names I just pass over their comments w/out reading.)

The rest is gravey.
Fish

Most Europeans have a waist slimmer than 6'3"

And it's gravy

[supermattyp]

i'm 130kg and typically ride at 60-70mph a day for 50 miles and I'm averaging 64mpg rock solid.

[Gingivitis Khan]

The good: everything except the rear shocks.
The bad: rear shocks.

~75 mpg.

[Bigboss242]

Guess I need to slow down a bit I usually drive 75-80 of course I am going to get shit mpg.

[BRed]

I've had my Forza about 6 weeks and it now has about 1900 miles.

During most of that time, fuel consumption has been 68-72mpg. That's mixed back road and highway miles, probably averaging 60-65mph (NC only has 70mph speed limits, but both Interstate and most state roads have the same 70 mph speed limit)....
if you drive any distance in NC, you're going to be on a 70mph road.

I still don't understand it, but mine gets slightly higher mileage on gasohol than it does on pure gasoline.....I've tried this twice now with the same result.

What I like about the Forza:
First, its balance.
The Forza has a natural balance that goes beyond what you normally see with scooters due to their low center of gravity. Someone did their homework on the Forza's geometry. It is well balanced enough that I often find myself waiting 2...3....4.... 5! seconds after coming to a complete stop, before setting a foot down. It should do well in a GoSlow race. It feels very stable at parking lot speeds and is easy to maneuver in tight spots.

My other scooter is a Big Ruckus.....compared to the Forza, the Big Ruckus is like a Jeep (ok, HumVee).
The BR is 32" wide and the Forza is 28" wide. The Forza will get to overwinter the snows on the patio, since it can drive right through the open door.

Fuel Injection
The Forza is my first fuel injected bike and I have to say....I love it!
With Keihin carbs, I usually spent some time (maybe a lot of time?)...trying to get rid of "deadband"....the Keihin's vacuum controlled slide always delayed and moderated any throttle input, second guessing your input.

The PGM/FI is instantly responsive and a carbed bike rider might be surprised by the Forza.

It's smoothness.
The throttle feels more like a speed controller than a throttle. In most situations, rolling off the throttle gives great compression braking and the Forza downshifts when it needs to, never leaving you feeling like you're in too high a gear to reaccelerate.

Honda came closer to having a properly tuned CVT with the Forza than they have with earlier scoots. Sacrificing performance for better fuel mileage by over weighting the variator just made riders who needed the full capabilities of the bike swap weights to recover it. The fact that the Sh300 and Forza use the lightest weights ever used in a Honda mid-sized scooter shows Honda is beginning to understand what riders want.

What I don't like about the Forza:

I wish HondaUSA had seen fit to provide American riders with a shock absorber spanner and a spark plug wrench for the non-standard plug.
Both are specialty items that you are not likely to have on hand and will have difficulty finding.

I also wish HondaUSA had seen fit to have generous supply of tires and sparkplugs on hand
( I had to order a sparkplug from England, since neither Honda nor any American auto parts store had ours in stock and there is no known substitute).
It's a new item here.
I like having a spare plug available when I'm on the road.....if you haven't seen the one for the Forza, its an ugly little beastie with ~2 inches of threads!
Looong reach.

The seat hump.....I'm sorry, I just don't like it. I think it's only there to cover the helmet hump in the main seat.
I think I would like one of the modified seats I've seen on bikes in Thailand....
maybe an enterprising member here from Thailand will open an eBay Forza Specialty Shop with some of the cool stuff they have?
I'll be a customer!

I took my seat hump (backrest?) apart, removed the cover and shaved a large triangle of foam right off the top....
It gained an inch or two of seating space and is generally better, but I would prefer it to be gone!
I won't try riding around again without it, though....that hard hump it mounts on nearly busted my tailbone on a pothole the other day.
I saw stars.

The linked brake.....this seems like a good idea, but I have been in places where it was a huge disadvantage.
I'd like to be able to turn it off. Part of the reason for using a light tourer is the ability to go off-road when you choose....
on the Big Ruckus, I crossed Burr Trail in 2008, 70 miles of dirt roads across some very rough terrain.
Coming off plateaus down a long series switchbacks with an 8-10% grade on gravel roads with sheer drop-offs on one side,
you don't really want your front brake to lock up every time you grab the rear, but it does anyway!

Fortunately, the Big Ruckus (and the Forza!) have a manual parking brake that works great as an emergency brake in that situation....
tighten the parking brake until it will just barely roll and creep down the mountain, feathering the left lever.

Last, I would like a tunable rear shock.
But then, the Big Ruckus didn't even have a preload adjustment and it had a monoshock!
The Forza again has the edge... I backed the preload off to the minimum setting and it feels better.

But, I'll be looking for a better shock one day.

Still, all these things are minor gripes and can easily be dealt with....the Forza is a keeper.


Yesterday, I filled up and then ran out most of a tank of gas. Riding in a large triangle along 3 major roads, I rolled non-stop for ~3 hours.
I rode until the gas gauge had been below E for about 35 miles (as long as I dared!) and then stopped and refilled.
195 miles on 2.7 gallons...most of that was 70mph, but on several occasions, the Forza had no problem zipping up to 80+ while overtaking cars.

and its only going to get better!

I like it.

[fish]

I've had my Forza about 6 weeks and it now has about 1900 miles.

During most of that time, fuel consumption has been 68-72mpg. That's mixed back road and highway miles, probably averaging 60-65mph (NC only has 70mph speed limits, but both Interstate and most state roads have the same 70 mph speed limit)....
if you drive any distance in NC, you're going to be on a 70mph road.

I still don't understand it, but mine gets slightly higher mileage on gasohol than it does on pure gasoline.....I've tried this twice now with the same result.

What I like about the Forza:
First, its balance.
The Forza has a natural balance that goes beyond what you normally see with scooters due to their low center of gravity. Someone did their homework on the Forza's geometry. It is well balanced enough that I often find myself waiting 2...3....4.... 5! seconds after coming to a complete stop, before setting a foot down. It should do well in a GoSlow race. It feels very stable at parking lot speeds and is easy to maneuver in tight spots.

My other scooter is a Big Ruckus.....compared to the Forza, the Big Ruckus is like a Jeep (ok, HumVee).
The BR is 32" wide and the Forza is 28" wide. The Forza will get to overwinter the snows on the patio, since it can drive right through the open door.

Fuel Injection
The Forza is my first fuel injected bike and I have to say....I love it!
With Keihin carbs, I usually spent some time

The seat hump.....I'm sorry, I just don't like it. I think it's only there to cover the helmet hump in the main seat.
I think I would like one of the modified seats I've seen on bikes in Thailand....
maybe an enterprising member here from Thailand will open an eBay Forza Specialty Shop with some of the cool stuff they have?
I'll be a customer!

I took my seat hump (backrest?) apart, removed the cover and shaved a large triangle of foam right off the top....
It gained an inch or two of seating space and is generally better, but I would prefer it to be gone!
I won't try riding around again without it, though....that hard hump it mounts on nearly busted my tailbone on a pothole the other day.
I saw stars.

The linked brake.....this seems like a good idea, but I have been in places where it was a huge disadvantage.
I'd like to be able to turn it off. Part of the reason for using a light tourer is the ability to go off-road when you choose....
on the Big Ruckus, I crossed Burr Trail in 2008, 70 miles of dirt roads across some very rough terrain.
Coming off plateaus down a long series switchbacks with an 8-10% grade on gravel roads with sheer drop-offs on one side,
you don't really want your front brake to lock up every time you grab the rear, but it does anyway!

Fortunately, the Big Ruckus (and the Forza!) have a manual parking brake that works great as an emergency brake in that situation....
tighten the parking brake until it will just barely roll and creep down the mountain, feathering the left lever.

Last, I would like a tunable rear shock.
But then, the Big Ruckus didn't even have a preload adjustment and it had a monoshock!
The Forza again has the edge... I backed the preload off to the minimum setting and it feels better.

But, I'll be looking for a better shock one day.

Still, all these things are minor gripes and can easily be dealt with....the Forza is a keeper.


Yesterday, I filled up and then ran out most of a tank of gas. Riding in a large triangle along 3 major roads, I rolled non-stop for ~3 hours.
I rode until the gas gauge had been below E for about 35 miles (as long as I dared!) and then stopped and refilled.
195 miles on 2.7 gallons...most of that was 70mph, but on several occasions, the Forza had no problem zipping up to 80+ while overtaking cars.

and its only going to get better!

I like it.

Can we get a picture of your seat modification?
Thanks, Fish

[gn2]

Forza intended for tarmac only.
It should be easy to de-link the brakes, just undo and blank off the relevant hose on the front caliper.

[BRed]

Can we get a picture of your seat modification?
Thanks, Fish

These show the only two external modifications I've made to the Forza......

[fish]

Can we get a picture of your seat modification?
Thanks, Fish

These show the only two external modifications I've made to the Forza......

[/img]

I'm feeling unusually lame here....one mod was shaving the seat hump. What was the other mod?
(great pix, by the way. Your pictures and the "NSS300/A Service Manual" will be invaluable when I start going beyond oil changes for this scooter. I had a couple pints of the full synthetic Honda Pro Gear oil that I use on my Kymco - thought I would be using it here, too. But no. We use the Honda engine oil for the gears. Strange.)

And, isn't that a kick in the pants about the tires and the spark plug!
Fish

[fish]

The horn button and bright light button are in a very awkward place.
I am going to look at rolling that switch area down so that the horn rests closer to my thumb.....once again today I tried very quickly to use my horn (a jerk in a hurry was passing me in 60% of my lane) but came up only with the turn signal button. This has happened 3 or 4 times.
I think I read elsewhere that another rider had the same complaint about the position of the horn button.
Also, suprised that this Honda does not have a headlight flasher....and I see that other countries get 4-way flashers. That would have been handy when pulling to the side of the road.
Fish

[BRed]

I'm feeling unusually lame here....one mod was shaving the seat hump. What was the other mod?

Fish

I'm not even sure leaving something off qualifies as a mod?

Anyway, the fact that it wasn't easily spotted is actually a PLUS here.


I left the foam lined plastic heat guard off and painted the raw aluminum CVT cover underneath....












the same with the BRs.....

















On the BR and Reflex, removing the foamlined plastic heat shield allowed the CVT case to run ~ 40 degrees cooler.
It also lowered the temperature of the final drive and rear wheel hub by 20-30 degrees.

An unexpected side effect of that was you could run a drive belt almost twice as long on a CVT without the heat guard installed.

The downside...the cover gets hot enough to give you a contact burn (it won't sizzle, but it WLL hurt!)

You will also hear more of the normal running noises from the CVT....rollers, contra spring, belt and bearing (it's a symphony!)


The Forza's cover isn't as completely covered by foam as the BR's was, but it still blocks all air flow across the cover and a quick test proved the Forza CVT also ran cooler without it, so it's gone!




and then there was that little patch of aluminum oxide corrosion from where riding it in heavy rain splashed some water under the cover and it started turning white....

well, that hastened the decision!

[MORON]

I'm 6'3 also but I have gotten used to the short leg space. I am not sure I would by a Forza again but there are very little options here in the U.S. I believe Kymcos and SYM's are available which are good south korean machines, (I think). I road both in Taiwan but only owned a SYM and that was only for a few months.
Forza (Bummer).
Came stock with vibration issue. Fixed when I replaced the rollers with Dr Pulleys, got new tires and balanced them.
Average to lame mileage at higher speeds. 53MPG at 65-70 and above
Lame suspension, especially the rear. swingarm config is lame and allows for swivel and rocking at high speed turns.
Way way too much plastic. A lot to remove when doing service and a lot to replace after a crash or mishap
Too heavy
Too wide

Forza (Good Stuff)
Fast (especially after the Dr Pulleys)
I like the seat. low profile
really good mileage under 65 (70MPG - 85MPG). yep, did it once. drove 60 mph for a tank full. amazing mileage
great motor. valve shims make valve adjustments almost non existent. Despite California smog crap on the motor it still moves.
Motorcycle lanes!!!! bye-bye commuters!
Handles good with good tires. tires are really important on this scoot.
Nice rims
front and rear disc brakes
Parking brake( really handy)
instrument panel is great. Overall the MPG indicator has been pretty close.
Really ignorant and shitty service in the U.S. (California)
really my biggest gripe is the weight and plastic. Strongest negatives for me.

[fish]

I'm 6'3 also but I have gotten used to the short leg space. I am not sure I would by a Forza again but there are very little options here in the U.S. I believe Kymcos and SYM's are available which are good south korean machines, (I think). I road both in Taiwan but only owned a SYM and that was only for a few months.
Forza (Bummer).
Came stock with vibration issue. Fixed when I replaced the rollers with Dr Pulleys, got new tires and balanced them.
Average to lame mileage at higher speeds. 53MPG at 65-70 and above
Lame suspension, especially the rear. swingarm config is lame and allows for swivel and rocking at high speed turns.
Way way too much plastic. A lot to remove when doing service and a lot to replace after a crash or mishap
Too heavy
Too wide

Forza (Good Stuff)
Fast (especially after the Dr Pulleys)
I like the seat. low profile
really good mileage under 65 (70MPG - 85MPG). yep, did it once. drove 60 mph for a tank full. amazing mileage
great motor. valve shims make valve adjustments almost non existent. Despite California smog crap on the motor it still moves.
Motorcycle lanes!!!! bye-bye commuters!
Handles good with good tires. tires are really important on this scoot.
Nice rims
front and rear disc brakes
Parking brake( really handy)
instrument panel is great. Overall the MPG indicator has been pretty close.
Really ignorant and shitty service in the U.S. (California)
really my biggest gripe is the weight and plastic. Strongest negatives for me.

Well, unless you're buying a Vespa, scooters are plastic covered. And lighter weight has its neg. trade-offs....this scoot is so much more stable than my lighter Kymco. (Kymco & SYM's are made in Taiwan - the best models are - but some are produced in China also, and sometimes one can spot the difference in build quality.)
Did you say you replaced the rear tire with a 150? What brand did you go with - and how is it in the "very wet"? (I ride in all weather to commute to work)
Thanks, Fish

[stryder123]

I just went over the 600 mile mark on my Forza. This is my feelings so far. The extra weight, compared to the pcx, makes it feel like it is glued to the road. Cross winds and the gust from big trucks have no effect at all. So far my gas mileage has ran from 67 to 72 mpg. In hopes that goes up a little as it gets more miles on it. I am 6ft and weigh 250 lbs. I find the power quite nice. Cruises at 55 to 60 MPH with very little twist on the throttle. Have not maxed it out yet but at 60 it feels like it can do that speed all day. I have the Honda tall screen on it. It needs to be a couple inches more tall and wider. I get lots of buffeting at highway speeds. Like most others, I hate the seat hump. I would gladly give up the rear helmet room to lengthen my seating area. Sounds like a winter project.

[SECoda]

If my pcx gets stolen out here camping i will try the Forza.

[Vulcandanny]

Moron, u do write about the Pulleys....... i am very interested to order those but are they really so much better? if yes, which ones do you have in your forza? thanks a lot for reply.....

[Bigboss242]

Worst mileage I have gotten going a full 75-80 was 57 mpg. For some reason the mpg goes down slow and goes up slow. Can anyone explain this too me or is it just how the computer calculates?

[gn2]

its an average over the trip distance.
The further you travel the less the effect on the average of big throttle openings.
Its just simple arithmetic.

[garrup]

It was a short summer here in Alberta, Canada, so i barely put 2000 miles on the scoot, but they were good miles.
The reliability and balanced performance of this machine amazes me.
Gas mileage: i average 85mpg, all while riding it pretty hard most of the time.
Handling: as many have mentioned, its so well balanced you can stop at an intersection with your feet up. Or take a bend at an angle you wouldn't dare do on a cruiser.
Reliability: it starts up, it accelerates smoothly. Nothing falls off. More than i can say for most of the motorcycles i've owned.
Best of all worlds: i can't imagine a machine with a better balance of power, gas mileage, comfort and handling.
A top speed of 80mph is quite respectable for a single cylinder 280cc engine. Being able to cruise all day at almost 90% of that top speed strongly suggests good mechanical integrity.
Downers? I'd like better rear shocks, but i've found this the case on every two wheeled contrivance i've owned.
I'd like a higher top speed, but i can't fault the bike for that. There are many power bikes out there, but everything comes with a trade off.
The seat back could be further back. I'm a bit tall (6'1") but not quite tall enough to want to mess with a good thing.
Now, if i could only get that battery out. I mean, winter is here! Will the seat come off easily? That would help. Can anyone give me some tips here?