NSS300 Fuel Pump problems

[dergav]

BRed..thanks for all the info and interpretation.
My UK bike assembled in 2013 has the VIN number ending 3336

[BRed]

For UK riders, I think I would ask DaveNSS to share his VIN...his is the only UK pump failure known to us.
I know some owners are protective of that information but if that's the case, perhaps he will share it offline or by PM with you?

VIN information is part of the public record, much like your license plate number and I cannot imagine any way someone could use the information to cause harm or loss.

In the US, the VIN and vehicle assembly date has to be visible externally on all vehicles for all to see.


From what has been posted so far, it looks like Italy took the worst hit, receiving the largest number of Forzas with bad pumps.....
13 fuel pump failures in a group of <30 riders is damn near a 50% failure rate?

[dergav]

BRed..thanks again..will do that ( although the last time I tried PM on this forum it didnt work..)
I take it that from what you say the Honda Thailand assembly runs are done market by market ( country of sale by country of sale)...so meaning that Italy may have been unlucky? However until Honda changed from installing the faulty component /pump then any bike assembled with that component is at risk? Not sure we have many UK Forza owners on this site so judging pump failures for the UK may be problematic.....However having this site and gathering information is great...thanks.

[gn2]

11,600 miles on my Forza, so far so good on the fuel pump, but oil leak from waterpump mechanical seal awaiting warranty claim plus rear disc and pads already replaced under warranty.
The users manual I have lists the different market versions of the Forza as
E UK
F France
ED European direct sales
U Australa, New Zealand
KO Korea

[DioTiAma]

"gn2", so many miles on the road and you still have an oil leak problem? They haven't fixed it yet? When it started? Or when did you notice it?

[gn2]

They had a look at it when they changed the disc and pads, I think that was about 9000 miles ish.
I first noticed it shortly after the 8,000 mile service which was done at the end of may.
The leak isn't too bad, but it shouldn't be leaking at all.

[DioTiAma]

Man, you are lucky. I noticed the leak at 1000km, the first oil / oil filter change (i have posted a picture in page 4)! Now i'm@6.700km. So i'm frustrated and disappointed for almost 6.000km (specially after changing the so called problematic parts). They tried to fix the problem once but no luck. I'm taking the scooter at the H.Q. workshop in a few days (waiting the parts from Belgium) for another try! Fingers crossed!

[BRed]

For the non-ABS Forza, these pictures of two VINs start to give some idea of production rates over time.....

[Chris S]

Okay here's one from Canada - I think you can group it with USA ones as the fuel usage indicator has the choice of miles per US gallons (I did a conversion from the km/liter indication I usually use, and can confirm it is us gallons not imperial.)

ABS
born on date 6/13
model year 2014
last VIN digits 0030
model VIN digits 042
10,000 k with no pump failure (touch wood)
However had the weeping hole oil leak, and the casing and pump shaft assy. were replaced under warranty @ 600 km first service.
In fairness to Honda Canada they gave me the next two services free as compensation for having to wait 45 days for parts from Japan while the scoot was in pieces in the shop.

Hope this helps.

[DaveNSS]

My VIN - MLHNF04B5D50002364

[bearcat]

i bought my new Forza (NSS300) on Sept. 23rd. Couldn't drive it home that day because the dealer couldn't get it started. i was told it turned out to be the fuel pump so i couldn't pick the bike up until the 25th, after they installed a new one. The bike had been sitting at the dealers since the 2014's came out here in the US earlier this year. After reading the posts here i see now that Honda had fuel pump problems. Hope the new fuel pump doesn't fail as well.

[iceman]

Must be one of the quickest failures ever!!

[BRed]

i bought my new Forza (NSS300) on Sept. 23rd. Couldn't drive it home that day because the dealer couldn't get it started. i was told it turned out to be the fuel pump so i couldn't pick the bike up until the 25th, after they installed a new one. The bike had been sitting at the dealers since the 2014's came out here in the US earlier this year. After reading the posts here i see now that Honda had fuel pump problems. Hope the new fuel pump doesn't fail as well.

Bearcat, so far every US Forza that has had a fuel pump failure has turned out to be an ABS model with a 10/13 assembly date.

We "think" that during October 2013, the assembly plant in Thailand received and installed a batch of bad fuel pumps.

Is your Forza the ABS model?
Was it assembled around 10/13?
What are the last 4 digits of your VIN (if you don't mind sharing it)?

[bearcat]

my forza is non abs - made 10/13 - last 4 numbere in vin are 1789

[BRed]

Thanks! That's pretty interesting.....
at 1789, that means there were twice as many non-ABS Forzas imported than BRs in their first year.
That doesn't count the ABS models so the total number of US Forzas could reach 4000-5000?


Your was the best possible way to experience a fuel pump failure!
congratulations!

enjoy your Forza!

[fish]

Okay here's one from Canada - I think you can group it with USA ones as the fuel usage indicator has the choice of miles per US gallons (I did a conversion from the km/liter indication I usually use, and can confirm it is us gallons not imperial.)

ABS
born on date 6/13
model year 2014
last VIN digits 0030
model VIN digits 042
10,000 k with no pump failure (touch wood)
However had the weeping hole oil leak, and the casing and pump shaft assy. were replaced under warranty @ 600 km first service.
In fairness to Honda Canada they gave me the next two services free as compensation for having to wait 45 days for parts from Japan while the scoot was in pieces in the shop.

Hope this helps.

Re. your oil leak and repairs....
The fellow in Cyprus said that his first repair did not stop the leak. He said when they ordered and assembled the parts seperately (the 2nd time) and removed the burr - the repair worked. Otherwise you were getting the same faulty part with the repair. Interesting, your experience.
I noted that the whole assembled part is only about $64, with $15 for the new gasket.
No good ordering it until I see if the factory has fixed the manufacturing issue.
Fish

[DioTiAma]

80 bucks...! As a customer, if i want to buy these two parts in Cyprus, i need to pay 399 euro (386 the crankcase cover / water pump & 13 the gasket)!!! http://www.mrcycles.com/oemparts/#/l/ho ... a-ac-parts

[BRed]

Based on what has been said, if you order the complete assembly with the cover, it's $68 and that appears to be the only way to get the cover....
as a complete assembly.

If you order the pump shaft, rubber and mechanical seals, washer and impeller, the cost is over $90 and you don't get a crankcase cover at all but you do get a fresh set of seals that haven't been scratched. Then you (or someone?) cleans up and deburrs the impeller shaft and reassembles the water pump.

From this I'm getting that the right crankcase cover is not damaged by the burred pump shaft, only the mechanical and rubber seal?
And you don't want the assembled cover (@ $68) because the odds are high it comes with a burred pump shaft pre-installed?

From looking at the schematic, it appears that a new pump shaft, a new mechanical seal and a new rubber seal are the bare essentials for repairing this issue (~$80).....does that seem correct?

all this assumes that the right crankcase cover is not damaged by pressing in the burred shaft.



As a side note, I've been closely monitoring this area on my Forza and I see no signs of an oil drip, but.......
I am seeing a dusty spot in that area on the bottom of the engine.
Not your normal dusty spot but an area that looks like it is attracting dust, like a wet spot.

Again no sign of oil, but there's something leaking there....
since it's right under a weephole, that may be completely normal but I'm still watching it for any sign of oiliness.
None yet.

[robisc]

Another two issues from Italian forum. One in a NSS300 bought in 2013 with 2800 kms and one bought in 2014 with 1700 kms. Some Honda official services say it's possible that will be a callback campaign. We hope...

[BRed]

Robisc, thanks for bringing this issue to our attention.....
we wouldn't have known about it if not for your hard work in collecting the info and then finding websites like this one to let us know.
Thank you.

as a side note, I think Florida took the worst hit in the US as far as receiving scoots with 10/13 assembly dates.
quite by accident I discovered that there are MANY 2014 Forzas for sale in Florida with very low mileage...
by that I mean less than 200 miles in many cases.

I am assuming the owners aren't aware of what we now know and just did not trust the scoot after the fuel pump failure, even after it was replaced and they decided to sale their brand new scooter.

Things like this can do irreparable harm to Honda's reputation, even among riders who are faithful Honda fans, especially when Honda remains silent about it.....
we know there is a problem, they know there is a problem and the only ones who don't know are those who are about to buy a new Forza by luck of the draw and perhaps end up losing trust in ALL Hondas when they get a 10/13 production model.

When the fuel pump fails, they think they bought a lemon and try to dump it fast...
the reality is, they bought a very good scooter with a very bad fuel pump.
$h!t happens.