Just rollers vs complete variator

[chicaboo]

I've read 59Nm before, but I've also seen 91Nm on here (which sounds crazy high to me).
When you say 40-45, do you mean ftlbs? That sounds about right, since 59Nm = 43.5ftlbs.

Gav.

[waspmike]

Read the variator manual.

60Nm is about right. Or 45 lbft or 6 Kgm.

I would recommend against using a rattle gun. Crankshafts are press fitted together so there are no splines. Using a rattle gun can under some circumstances twist the crank and alter the balance.

[chicaboo]

I'm not sure if it makes a difference to what you're saying - but I don't have a rattle gun that hammers many times/second.
I have an impact driver, that just throws a cam out once it hits a certain speed and just gives a single big wallop.

[waspmike]

OK for undoing it. As long as you fully support the variator, which is best done by jamming the tool next to a case stud.

My rattle gun heads up was not directed at you just a general note.

[chicaboo]

No worries, thanks for the heads up.

[Mr.Scooty]

Drats, I wish I saw this thread earlier because I've had the sliders, NCY Variator + Drive face, in all possible configurations. I'm not exactly sure what the general consensus was in the earlier posts, but here was my progression of it:

1) Stock everything with used belt, I was topping out at 62-63 mph, hitting the redline really hard on flat ground, overall I'd say acceleration was a 8/10 - very nice feeling, but too little top speed. I really like this configuration as it kept revs low and felt very cruiser-ly around town. Not good for freeway.

2) Stock Variator and drive face with 14g sliders. due to the taller slider profile, I got up to 65 mph before hitting redline. Acceleration was not only increased due to decreasing the slider weight by 1g, but because the slider face allowed the variator to sit closer to the backing plate. acceleration gains were just slightly noticable, but I'd say the feel of acceleration improved to 9/10. I'm sure with lighter sliders, you could get the acceleration feel perfect. My concern was not being able to max out with too light of a slider; but 13g should be perfect. At this point, I wasn't hitting the limiter as hard due to the increased top end. I recommend this setup for anyone looking for a tiny boost in OEM acceleration.

3) NCY Variator + Sliders - this setup allowed me to hit 70-71mph. The Variator itself DID add a slightly more aggressive ramp face, squishing the belt harder forcing it to ride at a larger diameter. The acceleration feel dropped a bit to maybe a 6.5/10 but this was because the top end had now expanded. The thing I noticed about Variator + Slider is that the acceleration profile was heavily biased in the 30-50 range, and after that it would fall off significantly from 55-70mph if I could even get there. The one audible difference with the variator upgrade is you can hear the engine working harder in the sweet spot of 30-50 as it holds higher revs. I would recommend this for anyone who wants a comfortable balance.

3a) NCY Drive face + sliders + OEM Variator - this setup was almost identical in top speed to the previous setup except it was able to get to 72ish MPH before hitting redline. The main difference between this setup vs the variator is that the acceleration profile was much more linear and it didn't hold higher revs in the 30-50mph range. It was smooth all around, but acceleration feel dropped to 6/10. I was surprised and would highly recommend NCY Drive face + 13g sliders for anyone who wants a slight bias towards top speed at the sacrifice of acceleration.

4) NCY Drive face + Variator + sliders - this is the ultimate top speed set-up. With this set-up I was only hitting redline on LONG downhills in full tuck at 75-78mph. I personally did not like this configuration as I'm a very heavy rider and never was able to utilize the high top speed except once in a while. The acceleration profile was abrupt to start, but boggy and not peppy, I'd say 4/10. I recommend this for anyone that weighs less than 100 lbs and wants to go 75+ MPH on their scooter. HaHAH!

As far as the weight issue goes, I personally see it as, the bigger you are the slower your theoretical top speed will be. On flat ground, My estimations tell me at 250lbs, I can easily get to 65mph, after that wind resistance and load make it impossible to go any faster. Therefore, if I know I'm only going to ride at 65mph then the OEM setup is fine, but if I'm on the freeway and need that extra 5mph to hit 70mph, then I may want the extra top end just in case even though it might not necessarily always be available for use until I get into a tuck or draft behind a car. The 78 mph mark is extreme for someone my size because it's very rare that even downhill and with a draft I could hit it. If you're lighter, I'd say you can get away with running the 75mph top speed set-up and still have good acceleration feel, but I lost TOO much acceleration chasing the top speed. With limited power, it's all about how you want to distrbute the power.

I ended up using the Variator + Slider setup, but am now just using sliders for the great accel feel.

[chicaboo]

Thanks Scooty,

That's a very comprehensive post you put together there, and I appreciate the feedback.
It seems the 2015 LED doesn't quite have the gearing as the older 2012 OWL does.
Regardless, I'll see how I go with just the sliders while I try and chase acceleration.
At this point I feel I need more power without breaking the bank (or buying a Forza).

Cheers, Gav.

[Mr.Scooty]

Thanks Scooty,

That's a very comprehensive post you put together there, and I appreciate the feedback.
It seems the 2015 LED doesn't quite have the gearing as the older 2012 OWL does.
Regardless, I'll see how I go with just the sliders while I try and chase acceleration.
At this point I feel I need more power without breaking the bank (or buying a Forza).

Cheers, Gav.

Agreed, see how it feels and go from there. The thing to remember is that the motor will only make the power it does and all the drivetrain modifications will only shift that power around or spread it out.

Also, for what it's worth, I was pretty close to buying a forza as well, but the trade-in price on the PCX was very very low. On top of that the forza doesn't look as good as the PCX and is not as nimble for getting around. Not to mention maxi scoots are kinda silly.

[Mel46]

I had a Burgman 400 and it was great for getting on the freeways and riding in the 70 mph range for long distances. I traded down to a PCX 150 because my wife had one and we were spending more time on city streets than out on the freeways. This is all fine and good, until you need to get on the freeway to get to a specific back country road that you want to ride on. Then we had the problem of not being able to keep up with traffic. We would stay in the slow lane but we would be pushing the bikes at 64 mph. So I purchased an Ncy variator and drive face, and 13 gram rollers for my wit's bike to see if it was worthwhile to do that for more top end. As long as you have a new belt it is well worth it for occasionally getting on freeways. I would not recommend it if you are going to do long road trips at higher speeds though. I think it would be too hard on the bike, plus it is too light to be comfortable at that higher speed. Crosswinds are a bit cheaper at 70+ mph.

[chicaboo]

What I like about the PCX is that its a comfortable size, while the Forza 300 and Burgman 400 are on the big side and lose part of the charm I like about scooters.
The PCX is perfectly adequate for the type of riding I do, but I do want more power and acceleration without having to ride a behemoth of a scooter (Aprillia Scarabeo probably fits the bill).
I've never seen it mentioned on here, but maybe there is a cheap 250cc EFI engine swap that's not to difficult of an operation? Who knows, I don't mind tinkering within my budget, that's part of the fun.

Gav.

[Mel46]

You want to put a 250cc engine in a PCX? I don't see how it will fit. There is very little room for expansion on the PCX. The better bet would be to keep up with the research being done on the 195cc bbk that has been talked about. I don't know if it has been perfected yet. I think there were a couple of racing teams that were working on it. Yuminashi was rumored to be working on one. I know the 170cc bbk works, but there has been interest in a 195cc bbk ever since the 150 came out. If it comes out and you install it you would essentially have a 200cc scooter. That is about the max power this little scooter can handle without twisting the frame and causing braking problems.

[chicaboo]

A BBK of around 190~200cc is a worthy upgrade, but the cost of having it shipped and installed starts to make it unobtainable.
That's why I've been thinking that a TB+IM+injector+valve springs and Fcon might be a cheap way out, while paving the way for a BBK perhaps maybe one day.
Who knows, Honda might come out with a 200cc PCX some day, and none of that would matter beyond that point. As long as I'm having fun in the mean time, it's all good.

Gav.

[waspmike]

Scooty is your speed from speedo or GPS?

I ask because no body seems interested in J Costa but they will do 125 KPH/78 mph (indicated) on the flat and 128/80mph slightly downhill. On a 125! Stock belt simply bolt it on.

Heavy rider knocks that down about 3 kph.

[chicaboo]

My "WeiChi-8888" variator tool just arrived, so I have some work to do this weekend.

[chicaboo]

Hi gang,

I installed the sliders today. The scooter now has crisp acceleration up to 80kph, and not too bad beyond that, and pretty good on the hills too.
I managed to get up to 110kph, but it was VERY windy and I didn't feel comfortable over 90kph, so I didn't try very hard to find my top speed.
I reset the battery before my ride, so hopefully that helped the ECU adapt to the exhaust and sliders quicker.

After all is said and done, I had a very enjoyable ride today and the scooter felt really good and more than just adequate.
Gav.

[nicuts]

Hi Guys
thank you for sharing info, I was about to type a whole long list of questions and then saw Mr Scooty's post. saves me lots of typing and definitely money.
Just a question, I have the 2013 PCX 150. In South Africa we some times a year behind on new models. Does all the PCX 150's use the same variators or are there differences ? Want to make 100% sure I order the correct parts. My daily commuting weight is around 190 pounds and I hit the rev limiter without too much struggle. Clock speed is 113 KM and speedo is approx. 10km out. Hitting the rev limiter that often is frustrating and embarrassing, especially if you are busy passing a granny doing 100KM and you have to backout on a passing move. So I am really hoping to gain another 10KM on top end.

Is the size of the rollers the same for OEM and NCY variators. I see the Malossi kit has 20x17 rollers, is that specific to Malossi ?

once again tx for great discussion and willingness to share

nico

[chicaboo]

Hi Nico,

My stock 2012 (2013) variator uses 20x15 rollers/sliders. I'll let other more knowledgeable members answer your questions about compatibility.


Cheers, Gav.

[Mr.Scooty]

Scooty is your speed from speedo or GPS?

I ask because no body seems interested in J Costa but they will do 125 KPH/78 mph (indicated) on the flat and 128/80mph slightly downhill. On a 125! Stock belt simply bolt it on.

Heavy rider knocks that down about 3 kph.

Hmm, like all things I've heard split reviews on JCosta (although the majority of them good). I guess I just didn't like that it was a wildly different variator mechanism and went for the more traditional setup.

The Speed was from speedo.

[nicuts]

Anyone who can advise on reputable companies who is selling / shipping the real DR Pulley sliders
The shipping to South Africa from USA is twice the price of the sliders, will be nice if I can find someone who doesnt charge shipping

Out of all the permutations I have seen with regards to rollers , variators etc, I have not seen anyone who has a Malossi variator with Dr Pulley SLiders. is that a possibility and has anyone tried it
Lots of NCY variators / DR Pulley sliders combinations., then also seems like NCY is more favoured by USA / UK and Malossi and Daytona etc for rest of the world. Is this due to availability ?

tx nico

[chicaboo]

Hey Nico,

In SA and Aus it's expensive to get any brand of variator due to shipping, so you shouldn't have blind loyalty to a particular brand like NCY or JCosta.
All I can say is, read the reviews and narrow it down to whats in your budget based on what reviews well that you can actually get.
I'm wrapped over just the 11g sliders in my stock variator as I can do 115kph on a windy day, and might even hit the rev limit at 120kph in ideal conditions?
I've somewhat decided that if I go with a variator it may as well be the Yuminashi to get the best of everything, IE: acceleration and top speed.
I've got nothing against the JCosta, but the tampon rollers bother me that they are not a standard design and can't be changed out for anything else.
NCY is prohibitively expensive to land in Australia, so that's out of the question regardless of it's performance or how well it reviews.
Malossi are known for making quality products, but if they do use a non-standard roller size (20*14 or 17? vs 20*15), this might be a pain in the bum.
There are heaps of options out there, so I'm sure you can find something that beats the stock setup in your budget.

Gav.