Takegawa Pcx 170cc

[Pcxdemon]

Sorry i cant be ars.... to copy all the stuff again so here is a link if you're interested..If youre NOT no need to reply...
http://www.clubpcx.com/forum/viewtopic. ... 405#p17405

[maddiedog]

Thread cleaned up... GN2's permissions changed to read-only for Performance. Sorry mate, I warned you...

Back on topic, how much of a difference does the extra 45ccs make? Are you measuring your fuel economy?

[sendler2112]

how much of a difference does the extra 45ccs make?

25cc's makes almost 2hp difference between the PCX125 and 150.

[you you]

GN2's permissions changed to read-only for Performance

Time limited though surely?

[Pcxdemon]

how much of a difference does the extra 45ccs make? Are you measuring your fuel economy?

Im still waiting to put it back in, so at this stage i dont know yet. Takegawa claims 12.5-13hp at the wheel,where i think 150cc has a 11hp at the wheel.
Bare in mind thats a mild tune,once i whack in bigger throttle body,ill be looking at least 14+hp at the wheel...but ill do that sometime down the road as i like progressive build performance...Fuel economy? Performance? Hmm.....ill let you know.

[Cascanciu]

Interesting. That's a long thread but I'm in for tuning. I'll read it and will pay attention to the outcome of your project, Pcxdemon.

[Pcxdemon]

Ive just finished putting her together,its all finished. She starts first time,idles lumpish and you can feel much more power from opening the throttle.
Its midnight now and im of to bed. First ride will be in the morning to work,some 10k away,ill make sure i take it easy for the first few hundred meters ,joking,more like couple of hundred k's to make sure it runs in properly..

[you you]

Ive just finished putting her together,its all finished. She starts first time,idles lumpish and you can feel much more power from opening the throttle.
Its midnight now and im of to bed. First ride will be in the morning to work,some 10k away,ill make sure i take it easy for the first few hundred meters ,joking,more like couple of hundred k's to make sure it runs in properly..

Does it run the standard head?

[Cascanciu]

I'm still halfway through the "other" thread, so I guess you will excuse a few questions:

- As qed says, standard head?.
- What about the gearing?. More power should go along a longer gearing. How're you gonna sort that out?. I assume you have an aftermarket variator.
- Clutch. Standard?. When you increase the power of an engine, it's always good to know how far you can go without damaging parts like the clutch, or installing an upgraded one.
- Air-to-fuel ratio. I guess you can enrich the mixture with that tuning box (can't remember the name right now), but IMHO, you should also test what lambda values you're running on, and do it on the road (engine under load) to make sure it's not running lean.
- Ignition timing. If I'm not mistaken with the box you can alter the injection quantity, but you need to work on the ignition timing too...

Hope you don't lose the will to live with so much answering

[Pcxdemon]

I'm still halfway through the "other" thread, so I guess you will excuse a few questions:

- As qed says, standard head?.
- What about the gearing?. More power should go along a longer gearing. How're you gonna sort that out?. I assume you have an aftermarket variator.
- Clutch. Standard?. When you increase the power of an engine, it's always good to know how far you can go without damaging parts like the clutch, or installing an upgraded one.
- Air-to-fuel ratio. I guess you can enrich the mixture with that tuning box (can't remember the name right now), but IMHO, you should also test what lambda values you're running on, and do it on the road (engine under load) to make sure it's not running lean.
- Ignition timing. If I'm not mistaken with the box you can alter the injection quantity, but you need to work on the ignition timing too...

Hope you don't lose the will to live with so much answering

Yes,its still using stock head. Stock head is good for max 170cc flow pressure.
I dont know yet with current gearing how it will go,i do have Takegawa vario and with that alone i can hit 127kmh on the speedo,so for that is more than sufficient. Kitaco has a gear up kit that extends the gearing extra 5% but i dont really need to go faster than it does i just like to get there much quicker.
I use Malossi clutch with red springs so that should be sufficient i hope,red springs engage at 4000rpm. Stock 125cc produces 3hp at 4000rpm clutch engagement,where 170cc pumps out 6hp at the same rpm...
Takegawa Fi con2 has pre tuned maps from their dyno set ups with their product combo's, so what ever you get performance wise fi con2 has a map to run it.
Also if i got it correctly it inputs on Throttle sensor,crank sensor,and fuel injector, im not sure with ignition timing,that is still stock of the main computer i guess..
And also what ever map you select you can richen it up or lean it down by heaps ie remove the airbox and run a pod filter or install bigger throttle body...
I just jumped on it in a garage for a second and on 4k clutch engagement it felt like flying thru the wall in front of me,has sooooo much power!!!

[you you]

So with the stock head what is the CR?

That and the displacement increase will be the key to any increase in power

[Cascanciu]

Thanks for your answers . Running lean is dangerous, but it looks like you have that sorted out as it looks with the clutch. With more torque available, it would have interesting (for me, at least) to have a longer gearing so you gained extra top speed, but as it looks like you're not interested in that, fair enough.

The only concern would be ignition timing. If it's gonna be controlled by the bike's ECU it will run on spec settings, and those are designed for the 125cc, not for the bigger bore you have right now. Perhaps it will be OK, but there's a chance that it won't, since as qed says, it's likely that the CR will be different than stock.

In some other preparations, where stock engines have been deeply modified, I have seen people using programmable ECUs to control the ignition timing, hence my question. If you don't hear knocking when you start your engine and take it for a test ride, all's good. The box you're using enters into the category of "piggy back" units, that work alongside the main ECU, allowing to tune the amount of fuel delivered into the engine.

I remember a thread from a Spanish forum I regularly post at, where a guy turboed a Yamaha T-Max 500. He used a fixed geometry VW Golf 1.9 TDi 90 hp turbo, water injection to cool down the intake air (no way to attach an intercooler), and an array of sensors (lambda, exhaust gas temperature, intake air temperature, boost and fuel pressure, knocking...) to get data on which to build the engine's mapping, which he developed on his own. A hell of a task, but now he's got a missile that keeps up with the 600 cc sports bikes at the Jarama circuit in Madrid. I can look for the link if you're interested in it. It will be in Spanish but it'll be my pleasure to translate if you wanna .

[you you]

Thanks for your answers

I remember a thread from a Spanish forum I regularly post at, where a guy turboed a Yamaha T-Max 500. He used a fixed geometry VW Golf 1.9 TDi 90 hp turbo, water injection to cool down the intake air (no way to attach an intercooler), and an array of sensors (lambda, exhaust gas temperature, intake air temperature, boost and fuel pressure, knocking...) to get data on which to build the engine's mapping, which he developed on his own. A hell of a task, but now he's got a missile that keeps up with the 600 cc sports bikes at the Jarama circuit in Madrid. I can look for the link if you're interested in it. It will be in Spanish but it'll be my pleasure to translate if you wanna .

Just post the link

[Pcxdemon]

Sorry for the late reply, CR is left unchanged, 170 piston is flat as a stock 125 so there are no worries there. Also ever since i've whacked in camshaft in there i've changed my spark plug 1 number colder to 8 and that made it run smoother so all good on that front.
After riding it yesterday all i can say is WOW! More torque,power makes the launch like a raging bull out of the gates,its instant,no delay and on half throttle takeoff makes the whole front end very light.Thats as fast as i throttled it yesterday on takeoff's as im still running it in. Getting to 100kmh (62mph) is so effortless and easy its just unreal...
On the way home i jumped on to the highway for a quick blast till next exit (couple of k's), giving it full throttle,i was doing 80mph by the end of the on ramp merging with traffic....faaast, cruising back down to 65mph i gunned it again and it just felt like a instant solid pull back to 80mph,very impressive. It felt that for the power increase and speed delivery the gearing could be extended significantly (which i wont at this stage) and i have to raise my weights up by a gram each..ill do that this morning.

[Cascanciu]

So it looks like everything's OK. Glad to hear that. First serious preparation on a PCX. Congrats!.

Just post the link

Here you are, Sir

http://www.forocepos.com/vbulletin/show ... hp?t=50717

Edit: If you read the entire thread, you'll see how this guy went through quite a few problems to get the bike to run smoothly. Apparently, the final power is around 80 hp with the turbo blowing around 0'8 bar if I recall correctly. He fitted a water-methanol tank under the seat to help keeping the intake air temperature at bay as there was no chance (no physical room for it) to fit an intercooler.

[you you]

Sorry for the late reply, CR is left unchanged, 170 piston is flat as a stock 125 so there arecs there. Also ever since i've whacked in camshaft in there i've changed my spark plug 1 number colder to 8 and that made it run smoother so all good on that front.
After riding it yesterday all i can say is WOW! More torque,power makes the launch like a raging bull out of the gates,its instant,no delay and on half throttle takeoff makes the whole front end very light.Thats as fast as i throttled it yesterday on takeoff's as im still running it in. Getting to 100kmh (62mph) is so effortless and easy its just unreal...
On the way home i jumped on to the highway for a quick blast till next exit (couple of k's), giving it full throttle,i was doing 80mph by the end of the on ramp merging with traffic....faaast, cruising back down to 65mph i gunned it again and it just felt like a instant solid pull back to 80mph,very impressive. It felt that for the power increase and speed delivery the gearing could be extended significantly (which i wont at this stage) and i have to raise my weights up by a gram each..ill do that this morning.

Just because the piston top is the same shape doesn't mean there is no effect. Greater swept area with the same combustion area means a higher compresion ratio so you might be be gaining from capacity and CR?

[Pcxdemon]

Sorry for the late reply, CR is left unchanged, 170 piston is flat as a stock 125 so there arecs there. Also ever since i've whacked in camshaft in there i've changed my spark plug 1 number colder to 8 and that made it run smoother so all good on that front.
After riding it yesterday all i can say is WOW! More torque,power makes the launch like a raging bull out of the gates,its instant,no delay and on half throttle takeoff makes the whole front end very light.Thats as fast as i throttled it yesterday on takeoff's as im still running it in. Getting to 100kmh (62mph) is so effortless and easy its just unreal...
On the way home i jumped on to the highway for a quick blast till next exit (couple of k's), giving it full throttle,i was doing 80mph by the end of the on ramp merging with traffic....faaast, cruising back down to 65mph i gunned it again and it just felt like a instant solid pull back to 80mph,very impressive. It felt that for the power increase and speed delivery the gearing could be extended significantly (which i wont at this stage) and i have to raise my weights up by a gram each..ill do that this morning.

Just because the piston top is the same shape doesn't mean there is no effect. Greater swept area with the same combustion area means a higher compresion ratio so you might be be gaining from capacity and CR?

You're right , cr has increased from 11.0:1 to 11.2:1 by Takegawa website. Just rode it to work after I've increased weights by a gram each and feels really good, also she is running in along quite nice...I've ridden some 250cc and 300cc and it would be somewhere in between the way it feels. I'd say I got it down to 10sec from 0-62 like some stock 250-300's from YouTube. Ill do a vid when its run in a bit.

[scisor34]

Pcxdemon, I just wanted to say how much I appreciate and enjoy reading the results you've experienced modifying your PCX, nice to hear from someone who's "been there, done that". I just wish it was a 150 so I could copy your setup. Keep it up!

[Pcxdemon]

Pcxdemon, I just wanted to say how much I appreciate and enjoy reading the results you've experienced modifying your PCX, nice to hear from someone who's "been there, done that". I just wish it was a 150 so I could copy your setup. Keep it up!

Cheers mate, honestly 150cc would be awesome and not far from 170cc in performance if derestricted. All you need to open it up is Takegawa vario or lighter weights and Takegawa exhaust..about $400 or less shipped to you...have a look at max tremo's Pcx with 150cc kit, he has a vid on YouTube, all he has is vario, filter and I-map but you don't need imap as yours is already 150 where his started as 125, and it hammers.
I would have upgraded to 150 my self but trade in diff was too much out of the pocket, so I've decided to bite the bullet and upgrade the engine for a fraction of the price. It's awesome...

[Mitch Detailed]

I've been talking to reggy at yuminashi. I've still gotta get info, but I'm hoping to pull funding to purchase a big bore kit and race head from him. All in all its quite expensive, but power is bar none.