the real key to riding in the snow

[flyingzonker]

I came across this video which surprised me. I had not known that it was possible to ride on roads in this condition with this much security and ease. If I had ever tried this on my PCX I would have lasted about 8 nanoseconds. Anyway, it's the tires that save the day. If I should get snow tires for my bike I will get them already mounted on their own wheels. I can see myself changing wheels each year, but not swapping tires.

[easyrider]

It's not the riding that's tough..it's the short curves,turns,and quick stops..ABS not gonna help either..

[gn2]

ABS not gonna help either..

Nonsense.

[easyrider]

There are a couple situations where conventional brakes will out stop ABS brakes and these are in loose gravel or dirt and on sticky deep snow. In these cases, the stopped wheel acts like a plough and pushes a ridge of material before the tire, causing it to stop quicker.Otherwise yes ABS is good to have..Snow ???gravel ??

[gn2]

There are a couple situations where conventional brakes will out stop ABS brakes and these are in loose gravel or dirt and on sticky deep snow. In these cases, the stopped wheel acts like a plough and pushes a ridge of material before the tire, causing it to stop quicker.Otherwise yes ABS is good to have..Snow ???gravel ??

Me smell something, the familiar reek of copy and paste.

ABS is constantly under development, the ridge effect can also be done by ABS.

[Oyabun]

During the winter I'm riding on Heidenau K66 snowtex which is a german manufactured motorcycle specific winter tire available in our sizes. It is great on snow and when damp or icy, but on cold dry surface tge Michelin city grips are hands down more confidence inspiring.
I have two sets o' wheels which I swap at end of season.
Surely I'd love an ABS even if it's front only. Also I go for a "winter training" every autumn. It's practically a full day with instructors on a soaking wet clay surfaced flat track with small dirt bikes to practice riding at near zero grip conditions.
Works for me.

[easyrider]

Copy and paste..Correct from an engineer !! I personally don't like it on heavy gravel.Dont drive in snow so I personally cannot relate,but my reading on the subject indicates that it is not good by people who frequently do.

[easyrider]

...and yet from another automotive expert: GN2 who knows all will say "rubbish"
The driver who knows what he’s doing benefits little from ABS. Time spent in an empty parking lot will quickly educate you on what “threshold braking” is – how fully you can press the brakes without locking up the wheels. Knowing your car’s mechanical limits is just as effective as ABS braking – and far safer, since invariably ABS like all mechanical systems fail at some point.
And in cases of limited traction such as snow, ice, and mud – ABS is actually detrimental to your safety, as it significantly (and needlessly) increases stopping distance. In snow or mud, a locked up wheel will dig into the snow – and provide considerable stopping power. If ABS prevents the wheel from locking in this case, almost no braking will occur. Consider the following situation, which happened to yours truly just today.

The driver is going down a snowy road at 25 MPH (position 1 on my crude Paint drawing). He wants to turn right into Wal-Mart, so he begins getting on the brakes and after a few seconds begins to turn right into the side street. Problem is, his car has ABS (red line, position 2). ABS prevents the wheels from locking up, so they continue to spin freely – and there’s no braking happening.
In about two seconds, yours truly is still doing 25 MPH, and his right-turn isn’t producing the intended result, because the wheels have insufficient traction to turn the car at 25 MPH in the snow. And traction control – the mirror machinery of ABS that prevents wheels from spinning when you floor the gas pedal – prevented me from gunning it, getting traction, and forcing the vehicle to the right. So he sails directly into the embankment. (Position 3, red line). But-for the ABS preventing proper braking, he would have slowed considerably before the critical moment – and could have made the turn (position 3, blue line).
I spent the next ten minutes with a shovel, trying to clear enough snow to give myself a path out.
You could fairly say that I shouldn’t have taken the turn at that speed – and you would probably be correct. But that doesn’t change that I had the ability to correct any error, any spin, and any wheel locking – and that the ability was negated by a “safety” feature.
And that, friends, is unacceptably dangerous. I wouldn’t mind if the car had an “ABS override” or “traction control override” – but increasingly, cars do not have a button on the dashboard to this effect. In fact, Federal law mandated that all cars model year 2012 and later must include ABS and other “safety” features, ostensibly to reduce crashes.
Which leads me to the final premise of this article – how does the minority of drivers who are actually educated on how to drive in emergency situations defeat these “safety” features that just invariably get us into trouble?
In seven years of driving, I’ve owned three cars – the first lacked ABS, it was broken from day one in the second car, and only the third has functioning ABS. Which I will be disabling as soon as possible. I’ve had many, many close calls with other cars in that seven years – and I successfully avoided them all without the help of ABS. This system will get me into more trouble than it’s worth.
The most effective method (and the crudest) is simply to pull the corresponding fuse. Most cars have their fuse box under the glove box on the front passenger’s side, although this can vary. All fuse boxes will come with an accompanying diagram that illustrates which fuse serves which device on the vehicle. Consider this sample fuse box, taken from a Volkswagen Beetle.

[fish]

If I drive into a snow bank, I am driving too fast or following too close, for road conditions.
Practicing stops in a parking lot on my bike - is not in the same room as a spectacularly sudden vehicle across my riding path.

I do understand that we have absolutely no ability to change the others belief. There's quite a lot of that, lately, going on in this country.

I would not buy a vehicle that does not have ABS.

Fish

[PCX150Rider]

If ABS saves lives then of course it's good. Anything that saves a life has value. However, it's something one can live with or without. That being said driving responsibly or being skillful or paying attention to the road instead of what's on the phone screen does help.

ABS used to "cost extra" because it was coming on the market and being promoted as a desirable thing. Now it's being included in even the base econo-boxes just to compete with that segment.

But. . .

The thing is the sensors eventually can get corroded and the system reverts back to a regular type conventional braking system. Except for the pedal not vibrating it's hard to notice the difference. The idiot light will come on and stay on while the vehicle is operating just to let you know the system needs to be serviced. Now. . .if you don't have a 25 year old vehicle and you can still get a new pump/modulator/solenoid or new sensors and you want to spend the $$$ just to know that you now have ABS again then that is a personal choice.

After a certain point the replacement parts start reading "Used" OEM. . ..

So your options are trade in or sell your vehicle at an optimum time while everything still works. Or, hope something fails on it while you can still get "new" parts. Or just think "old school" and drive responsibly and get a vehicle that relies on as few electro-assisted "extras" as possible. "At the touch of a button" is starting to sound like the express route to obesity.

Now you can just give your device verbal orders like it's an employee. . .no more "Clap on Clap off". It's a kinder, gentler, way of feeling superior.

[gn2]

There's always been a problem getting some parts for older vehicles.
ABS componentry is no different to other parts.

I have had to buy multiple replacement sensors for my wife's Landrover at great expense, the cure for that was simple, trade it for a Nissan.

[flyingzonker]

During the winter I'm riding on Heidenau K66 snowtex which is a german manufactured motorcycle specific winter tire available in our sizes. It is great on snow and when damp or icy, but on cold dry surface tge Michelin city grips are hands down more confidence inspiring.
I have two sets o' wheels which I swap at end of season.
Surely I'd love an ABS even if it's front only. Also I go for a "winter training" every autumn. It's practically a full day with instructors on a soaking wet clay surfaced flat track with small dirt bikes to practice riding at near zero grip conditions.
Works for me.

Are these tires you use expressly made for PCX? Or do you have to "massage" them to get the fit you want on the rim? I wonder if Heidenau supplies the US market.

[flyingzonker]

If I drive into a snow bank, I am driving too fast or following too close, for road conditions.
Practicing stops in a parking lot on my bike - is not in the same room as a spectacularly sudden vehicle across my riding path.

I do understand that we have absolutely no ability to change the others belief. There's quite a lot of that, lately, going on in this country.

I would not buy a vehicle that does not have ABS.

Fish

I'm afraid you couldn't buy a non-ABS vehicle if you wanted to anymore.

As for having absolutely no ability to change the beliefs of others....You got that right! And beliefs are all we have anymore.....all the facts have suddenly (or has it been sudden?) become "fake".

[you you]

If I drive into a snow bank, I am driving too fast or following too close, for road conditions.
Practicing stops in a parking lot on my bike - is not in the same room as a spectacularly sudden vehicle across my riding path.

I do understand that we have absolutely no ability to change the others belief. There's quite a lot of that, lately, going on in this country.

I would not buy a vehicle that does not have ABS.

Fish

I'm afraid you couldn't buy a non-ABS vehicle if you wanted to anymore.

As for having absolutely no ability to change the beliefs of others....You got that right! And beliefs are all we have anymore.....all the facts have suddenly (or has it been sudden?) become "fake".

Are you sure? I’ve got more than beliefs. I know, I’ve looked.

And facts still kind of are facts.

[gn2]

I'm afraid you couldn't buy a non-ABS vehicle if you wanted to anymore.

Sure you can.
Just get a used one, there's plenty to choose from.
Me I quite fancy this one:
https://classics.autotrader.com/classic ... /100870761

[fish]

I'm afraid you couldn't buy a non-ABS vehicle if you wanted to anymore.

Sure you can.
Just get a used one, there's plenty to choose from.
Me I quite fancy this one:
https://classics.autotrader.com/classic ... /100870761

Boggles the mind - what we used to drive.
My old Granny always bought "wide-track" Pontiacs. (she rolled several on her way to work at Wright Patterson AFB)
I was 11, so she tossed me the keys and sent me for eggs from the farmer up the road.

I got that dam thing airborne crossing a culvert on the way home.
Wet myself and just stopped the fish-tailing in time enough to pull into her driveway - as though nothing had happened.

She also taught me to play poker when I was 6.
Girlfriend in SoCal used to take me for drives in the mountains in her parents '63 T-Bird convertible. Door handles were about 18" from the ground.
Not a single cup holder....nor ABS.

Dangerous times on the roads in those days.
Fish

[PCX150Rider]

Pontiac used to "Build Excitement". I was a bit sad when I found out GM discontinued Pontiac. My first car was a Pontiac Le Mans with an OHC 6 cylinder piece of crap engine and a 2 speed automatic. I'll save you the sob story but the engine was an engineering blunder. I should have waited to get a used one with a 326ci engine instead. Stupid me. Anyhow. . .live and learn. It did look good. . .but it was a bottomless money pit.

The T-Bird. . .wow. . .when I was a kid our neighbor bought a brandy new white '64. As time went on Ford basically evolved the Bird into and old man's car with a 428 (or 429 engine). . .quick. . .but more like a Lincoln than a traditional T-Bird. The only ones I saw buy them then were my parent's generation. . .younger folks were more into Mustangs, Camaros, and Firebirds. Oh, sorry, and then there was the AMC AMX. . .or Javelin.

Today there are clubs with members who collect old station wagons. I watched a program the other night about them. Big American made tanks that launched us from Elvis, through the Beetles, and into Pink Floyd.

My Dad had a Ford Falcon wagon that had a manual windshield wiper washer. You had to pump a bulb with your left foot that was on the floor. The fluid bag was just in front of the firewall. . . sort of laying on the wheel well if I remember correctly. It was early '60s.

I live in the past sometimes. . .but it's never boring.

[easyrider]

That T bird was my favorite back in the day, but I turned into a MoPar guy and drove a 1968 Charger.. that was the era of muscle cars..

[PCX150Rider]

That T bird was my favorite back in the day, but I turned into a MoPar guy and drove a 1968 Charger.. that was the era of muscle cars..

Oh yes. . .let's not forget MOPAR. Dodge Charger Daytona Birds too! Richard Petty and all that good stuff. . ..

The basic 383 Charger was the entry level to the more upscale Charger with the 440 Six Pack. Wow. . .it could be a wheelie machine at the drag strip if set up with the right kind of suspension and traction bars. A rich kid in my High School class had one. Got a ride in it once. . .holy geezzusss. . ..

And let's not forget the Dodge "Super Bee" or Plymouth "GTX".

While I'm totally off topic I'm going to take it a step further. . .Burger Joints of the past. . .where are they now?

Burger Chef
Carrols
Hardee's (hurry on down!)
Lum's (although a sit-down place and known more for hot dogs in some places)
White Castle (far and few between but thankfully you can still buy them at the grocer)

Lot's of good times and Micky D's and Burger King too. . .. With a $5 bill you could take a date to the movies, put gas in the car, and still get some food after the show. . .. Somebody stop me!

[flyingzonker]

If I drive into a snow bank, I am driving too fast or following too close, for road conditions.
Practicing stops in a parking lot on my bike - is not in the same room as a spectacularly sudden vehicle across my riding path.

I do understand that we have absolutely no ability to change the others belief. There's quite a lot of that, lately, going on in this country.

I would not buy a vehicle that does not have ABS.

Fish

I'm afraid you couldn't buy a non-ABS vehicle if you wanted to anymore.

As for having absolutely no ability to change the beliefs of others....You got that right! And beliefs are all we have anymore.....all the facts have suddenly (or has it been sudden?) become "fake".

Are you sure? I’ve got more than beliefs. I know, I’ve looked.

And facts still kind of are facts.

Nah...we don't do facts anymore in my country...we listen to Fox news instead. Either that or we go to the other extreme's news outlet. Facts are for wimps. Spin is in.