ScooterMan wrote: No way to know however without throwing the bike on the dyno and experimenting with different intake lengths to find out what length provides the most power at 8k rpm.
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There have been locked dynos for the pcx150 posted in other threads. The stock tuning already has it's power peak at 8,000. That is why we are tuning our varios to that rpm. The tuned runner is also providing a bump in the torque peak at 6,000 which gives the bike it's exemplary fuel economy. But a runner tuned for 6k will be a loss at 9.000 so this, along with the cam tuning, is why we see the power falling off at redline. Eliminating the runner with a pod filter might tend to move the power band higher in rpm which would increase it except that you will then need to remap the mixture or you will be rich at 6k and lean at redline. And you are also trowing away the torque bump at 6k. The O2 sensor can only perform global trimming to the mixture which might take care of a loud exhaust and the snorkel removal.
Yes, things get technical. I'm not completely gung-ho on the pod filter idea, and don't care for the added sound from it really. I wish I'd run just the exhaust and done some trial and error. But as you said, seat of the pants testing can vary based on so many variables. And, with the amount of difference a pod filter vs airbox can make (prob no more or less than a 1/4hp), a full vs 1/4 tank of gas, 3-5mph more headwind, a few degrees in ambient temp or humiduty differences make getting comparative results hopeless. I'm such a weight savings freak that if nothing else, even if I lost a tad with the pod, it the 2 1/4lbs in weight make up for it, then I'll keep it. Lol.
When I attended MMI 20 years ago, in our 4 stroke performance class, we played with intake tuned length and dyno'd the results to see the effect. Theoretically, you want the cam, intake tuned length, exhaust tuned length, and volumetric efficiency of the motor to all line up at the same RPM. Due to the design constraints of a motorcycle, it's not always possible and quite often isn't executed.
I had to laugh when the undertail exhaust trend hit the market 10 years ago on sportbikes as all my calculations of an inline 4 motorcycle with the headers coming out in the traditional location, showed that an undertail exhaust is too long for the intended RPM operation of an inline 4 cyl sportbike. They had to be giving up a few ponies in the name of "style."
It's pretty cool on my bike. And I wouldn't noticed a specific power increase at a certain rpm if it nested in my hair tbh. You might. How is your scooter doing?
sendler2112 wrote:10-50 mph is a good metric and is better than 0-60 for this scooter since it eliminates the launch and the fuel injection's intentional lag for the first few tenths after take off and it takes too much clear real estate to reach 60. And a hill climb if you have a long enough hill nearby that is steep enough to top out somewhere between 45 and 55 mph. But of course we have no baseline for your machine from before so we still won't know anything.
I'll skip trying to time it then. Feels good to me, so that's good enough.
2013 PCX 150 with,
Givi Tall Screen, and E370 Top Case
NCY Variator and Face Plate, 12 gram rollers
Takagawa Silent Oval Exhaust, K&N R1100 pod filter mod
YSS XL Rear Shock Absorbers Michelin City Grip 120/70 Front 140/70 Rear
2013 Honda CB500X with Rally Raid kit
2005 Piaggio X9 500 Evolution
1982 Honda CX500 Turbo
1983 Honda Nighthawk S
I am curious to time my 0-60. (I swear my old 2007 Honda Reflex 250 was 11 secs 0-50). I don't have a cam, so I'll have to set my stopwatch on my phone and try that, or somehow tape the phone to the chin-bar of my helmet. Lol. Or, just set the phone to record and stick it in my pocket and honk the horn when I want to start/stop so I know! I'm going to throw in some 12g or 13g Dr Pulley sliders on my 2013 as well but I have NCY 13g rollers in the 2015 at the moment. I know Maglutia had tried the DR Pulley Sliders on his NCY Variator/Drive Face and said there wan an odd vibration and reduced top speed both times. I can only hope that it was an install error that caused that, not the special teflon coating inside. I know the sliders can fall out of their intended position very easily if you don't keep the variator pinched tightly the entire time while installing them. They can also easily be installed incorrectly as others have done on this forum. =P I'm hoping that is the case cause I'm thinking that maybe I can get an extra couple MPH out of a set of sliders vs some rollers!
2015 PCX 150 (White)[/color]
Top speed 76mph(2015) 79mph (2013)with NCY variator & Drive Face
Sliders and the NCY variator. As you recalled correctly were a disaster for me. My current love is the sliders in my daytona variator. I am currently playing with weights again to dial myself back to where I want to be. Before I finish that though I'm going to throw my stock intake back in. I am running the takegawa silent sport exhaust, cam, and FiCon2 so I'm going to see what it does for enine rpm changes for takeoff and acceleration. I also seem to remember an 8mpg drop when I installed the 1/4" larger tube to the throttle body. K&N now makes a drop in filter for our 2013s anyway.
I did a bunch of 0-50 mph timed runs and weighted hill climb testing to document all my mods but those threads got bombed out of existence by the haters back in the day before the moderator gave us safe haven in performance forum from the jokers and their nonsense.
Tried to install a new bar, but it didn't fit, so instead, took the old bar offf, clamped it in a vice at the proper points and bent both sides forward, for less sweep. It worked, and feels really good. Also moved the controls in about 1 1/2" on each side (had to drill an new hole for the throttle cable stop in the bar). much better, and protects my hands better behind the GIVI screen. Had to install the mirror extensions though (didn't need them before). I like the position better now. Feel more like a standard style cycle and opened up the cockpit for me. Handling is a bit quicker, which is preferable to me.
Then I opend the airbox, and decided to remove the first intake snorkel and OEM air filter and plate. Then decided to cut the Intake Snorkel and clamp the K&N Filter right to it. Not sure what it's going to do for perceived performance as it was too cold to ride much tonight but will have a better idea tomorrow. (I dis-connected the battery for about a half hour as suggested).
It sounds really good. I'll test it on my usual Highway/Interstate route tomorrow.
2013 PCX 150 with,
Givi Tall Screen, and E370 Top Case
NCY Variator and Face Plate, 12 gram rollers
Takagawa Silent Oval Exhaust, K&N R1100 pod filter mod
YSS XL Rear Shock Absorbers Michelin City Grip 120/70 Front 140/70 Rear
2013 Honda CB500X with Rally Raid kit
2005 Piaggio X9 500 Evolution
1982 Honda CX500 Turbo
1983 Honda Nighthawk S
25 mph winds and cold didn't do much for testing anything other than my handling skills today. Bike handles great and sounds really good now.
When acceleration out of a corner at abut 25mph at WOT, it jumps to 8k-8.2k rpms and seems to pull really nicely there. Is that at the end of the Power and torque this thing will produce?
2013 PCX 150 with,
Givi Tall Screen, and E370 Top Case
NCY Variator and Face Plate, 12 gram rollers
Takagawa Silent Oval Exhaust, K&N R1100 pod filter mod
YSS XL Rear Shock Absorbers Michelin City Grip 120/70 Front 140/70 Rear
2013 Honda CB500X with Rally Raid kit
2005 Piaggio X9 500 Evolution
1982 Honda CX500 Turbo
1983 Honda Nighthawk S
vamootsman wrote:25 mph winds and cold didn't do much for testing anything other than my handling skills today. Bike handles great and sounds really good now.
When acceleration out of a corner at abut 25mph at WOT, it jumps to 8k-8.2k rpms and seems to pull really nicely there. Is that at the end of the Power and torque this thing will produce?
Probably..it is a 150 after all! =P
So, you're running the drilled out rollers in the 12.5g range? I forget what you drilled them out to.
2015 PCX 150 (White)[/color]
Top speed 76mph(2015) 79mph (2013)with NCY variator & Drive Face
vamootsman wrote:25 mph winds and cold didn't do much for testing anything other than my handling skills today. Bike handles great and sounds really good now.
When acceleration out of a corner at abut 25mph at WOT, it jumps to 8k-8.2k rpms and seems to pull really nicely there. Is that at the end of the Power and torque this thing will produce?
Probably..it is a 150 after all! =P
So, you're running the drilled out rollers in the 12.5g range? I forget what you drilled them out to.
I should have said "produces". Was wondering if It would pull better at a bit lower Rpm or not.
The 10g rollers should be here this week. need to do some timed runs to compare the roller swap, but not sure how to time them safely. Any suggestions?
2013 PCX 150 with,
Givi Tall Screen, and E370 Top Case
NCY Variator and Face Plate, 12 gram rollers
Takagawa Silent Oval Exhaust, K&N R1100 pod filter mod
YSS XL Rear Shock Absorbers Michelin City Grip 120/70 Front 140/70 Rear
2013 Honda CB500X with Rally Raid kit
2005 Piaggio X9 500 Evolution
1982 Honda CX500 Turbo
1983 Honda Nighthawk S
vamootsman wrote:need to do some timed runs to compare the roller swap, but not sure how to time them safely. Any suggestions?
I used my phone set to stop watch in a handle bar mount and did 0-50. I had my finger on the start button ready to press it when I gunned it. Go out to a straight back road with a 55mph speed limit. put your right blinker on and pull onto the shoulder of the road to wait for an opening. Make your run and turn around and do the same in the opposite direction. Make three runs each way and average the runs to rule out the wind and slight elevation changes.
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Setting a phone or camera to video the speedo and tach for a later review on youtube would be even better where you could get the times from just scrolling along the bottom of the video track. This would also show changes in what is happening while you are just riding around a known course. You could see things like the behavior of the torque slot and the contra spring when encountering a hill with and without changing the throttle. This would also let you do 10-50mph testing which would eliminate the variability of the launch.
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I wish I had thought of video when I was doing my testing a couple years ago.
vamootsman wrote:need to do some timed runs to compare the roller swap, but not sure how to time them safely. Any suggestions?
I used my phone set to stop watch in a handle bar mount and did 0-50. I had my finger on the start button ready to press it when I gunned it. Go out to a straight back road with a 55mph speed limit. put your right blinker on and pull onto the shoulder of the road to wait for an opening. Make your run and turn around and do the same in the opposite direction. Make three runs each way and average the runs to rule out the wind and slight elevation changes.
.
Setting a phone or camera to video the speedo and tach for a later review on youtube would be even better where you could get the times from just scrolling along the bottom of the video track. This would also show changes in what is happening while you are just riding around a known course. You could see things like the behavior of the torque slot and the contra spring when encountering a hill with and without changing the throttle. This would also let you do 10-50mph testing which would eliminate the variability of the launch.
.
I wish I had thought of video when I was doing my testing a couple years ago.
Thanks for tips. I just happen to have a couple of Cameras to use so will do that.
2013 PCX 150 with,
Givi Tall Screen, and E370 Top Case
NCY Variator and Face Plate, 12 gram rollers
Takagawa Silent Oval Exhaust, K&N R1100 pod filter mod
YSS XL Rear Shock Absorbers Michelin City Grip 120/70 Front 140/70 Rear
2013 Honda CB500X with Rally Raid kit
2005 Piaggio X9 500 Evolution
1982 Honda CX500 Turbo
1983 Honda Nighthawk S
Here's pics of the Pod filter. It's still in question as to whether or not in boosted the performance of the scoot, but it sounds really sweet with the silent oval exhaust.
And here Youtubes with sound with the air cleaner cover on and off. The Snorkel is removed too.
GOOD DAY riders .......
I have a 2013 PCX 150 i have the K&N filter and i use motul oil .. i currently have 10,000 miles on my bike . it runs from 73mph to 69 depending on windy days.{florida} i weight 215lbs as well .. I am using the factory variator and factory 18gram rollers ....some of you guys dont go past 65 mph .. the 12.5 gram rollers are good for gy6 engines and basically local area riding ..
Different weights of rollers don't affect top speed. The top speed of my stock 2013 PCX150 before any mods was 66 mph at the rev limiter. With my new factory vario, drive face, and belt, with DrPulley sliders, I can hit 79 on the stand and 66-70 on the road depending on the wind.
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Do you know if your bike has the stock drivetrain and tires? 70 mph on a stock bike is way optimistic. Speedo error?
