Why are motorcycles relegated to less light than cars?

[gn2]

It's all to do with the width I tell you!

[djcat]

How do you figure?

I ride bikes and drive cars.

Cheap cars have two times 55 Watt low beams and two times 60 Watt high beams. Bikes have one times 55 Watt low beams and one times 60 Watt high beams. Nice cars have two times 55 Watt HID bi-zenon. The PCX has the best headlights of any bike I have with two times 30/ 35 Watts. Barely half of what a cheap car gets to use.

You never had a proper bike, did ya? You are quoting the technical manual but completely forget that the output is not just a matter of power. If you ever had different models of car and different models of bike you will see there is a world of difference in the light output and light distribution, even if they all have the same number of lights and wattage.

I had plenty of bikes with decent headlights from factory and I also owned an Alfa Romeo Mito with totally rubbish headlamps, even the PCX headlight is better from factory....

[sendler2112]

How do you figure?

I ride bikes and drive cars.
I also owned an Alfa Romeo Mito with totally rubbish headlamps,.

You like to keep talking about your crappy lights on the Alfa don't ya'. I have the following: 2007 Ninja650, 2009 Ninja250, 2011 CBR250R, 2013 PCX150. Do any of these qualify me to comment on the subject of headlights? I think what we are seeing is that the vast majority of riders are fair weather riders that rarely ride after dark and rarely ride at superhighway speed. So to them, stock motorcycle headlight performance is a non issue.
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I ride 80 miles per day, 180 days per year, back and forth to work. 1/3 of the time in the pouring rain. 1/3 of the time in the dark on one leg of the trip or the other. At 70 mph on the superhighway now that I am back on my CBR250R as my main bike. I would ride more if the roads where I live weren't covered with ice four months of the year.
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I will choose to improve my safety by improving my lighting from stock. Anyone that discourages people from improving their stock motorcycle headlights which have half the power and lighting effect as the most basic modern car. is giving out bad advice.

[djcat]

How do you figure?

I have the following: 2007 Ninja650, 2009 Ninja250, 2011 CBR250R, 2013 PCX150. Do any of these qualify me to comment on the subject of headlights?
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Well, as far as I can see all those bikes weren't made for year round riding, they were made for Sunday riding by people that get them out of the garage twice a month and polish them the rest of the time. No, I don't think you know what a proper motorbike light looks like.

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I ride 80 miles per day, 180 days per year, back and forth to work. 1/3 of the time in the pouring rain. 1/3 of the time in the dark on one leg of the trip or the other. At 70 mph on the superhighway now that I am back on my CBR250R as my main bike. I would ride more if the roads where I live weren't covered with ice four months of the year.
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As I hinted above, I don't think you own the right tools for the job. I ride all year round but two months when ice and snow keep me from it. 80 miles per day on two wheels was my daily commute, most of that down motorways. As a side hobby, I also transport blood on motorbikes as a bloodbiker for a voluntary emergency service in the UK, you will see me riding at 4am in the morning between hospitals with a box of blood, platelets or whatever is needed on the back.

I know a thing or two about night riding and I also know that blinding other road users is dangerous and illegal. Sit next to somebody that is blinded by oncoming traffic due to scattered illegal HIDs, such as my wife who nearly put the car in the ditch because she couldn't see where she had to go!

By all means, increase your conspicuity but not at the expense of other people's safety.

[sendler2112]

We have also heard of your wife's momentary dazzle by some tuner car kid's crappy blue ebay hid conversion. That doesn't mean all lighting improvements will be unacceptable. I'm also glad that you feel comfortable with the lighting on your "proper bike". To say that none of my bikes are "proper" and could be considered representative is a really uninformed and stuck up attitude. These are all multi-purpose world bikes which sell in the millions in all markets.
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So now you look for the subject to come up so you can go around telling everyone that it is perfectly fine for their bike to have half the lighting power of a car and to just live with it. Very bad advice for anyone that rides at highway speed in the rain at night.
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Technology has advanced decades ago well beyond the point of worrying about how to supply an extra 65 Watts from a motorcycle charging system. Motorcycles share the same roads as cars and should come equipped with the same minimum requirement for legal light output as cars.

[djcat]

We have also heard of your wife's momentary dazzle by some tuner car kid's crappy blue ebay hid conversion. That doesn't mean all lighting improvements will be unacceptable. I'm also glad that you feel comfortable with the lighting on your "proper bike". To say that none of my bikes are "proper" and could be considered representative is a really uninformed and stuck up attitude. These are all multi-purpose world bikes which sell in the millions in all markets.
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So now you look for the subject to come up so you can go around telling everyone that it is perfectly fine for their bike to have half the lighting power of a car and to just live with it. Very bad advice for anyone that rides at highway speed in the rain at night.
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Technology has advanced decades ago well beyond the point of worrying about how to supply an extra 65 Watts from a motorcycle charging system. Motorcycles share the same roads as cars and should come equipped with the same minimum requirement for legal light output as cars.

It was not a momentary dazzle, I sat in the passenger seat when it happened. The fact that illegal HIDs dazzle other road users and effectively put their lives at risk doesn't get better just because you are upset.

Headlights are a matter of regulation for a reason, if you want to increase your conspicuity there are plenty of ways of doing so without dazzling others. Maybe you could have looked into headlight performance as a feature of the bikes you were looking for but little sports bike rice rockets like a Ninja and a CBR aren't made for all year round riders...these are little rice rockets made for wanna be knee draggers showing off. When you get to a 800cc you may come back to me and start talking bikes ;-)

[Alibally]

I don't know if it's the same in the U.S. But in the UK xenon headlamps vehicles have to have axle level sensors and headlamp wash wipe as a legal requirement.

If I and anyone else that's considerate to other road users fitted brighter or updated lighting I'm sure they would make sure they wouldn't dazzle oncoming road users but when any boy racer in the world can buy a xenon kit for £30 off eBay they probably don't care as long as they can see ok.

It's really up to the police to crack down on vehicles with poorly adjusted or illegal lighting.

[sendler2112]

It was not a momentary dazzle, I sat in the passenger seat when it happened. The fact that illegal HIDs dazzle other road users and effectively put their lives at risk doesn't get better just because you are upset.

Headlights are a matter of regulation for a reason, if you want to increase your conspicuity there are plenty of ways of doing so without dazzling others. Maybe you could have looked into headlight performance as a feature of the bikes you were looking for but little sports bike rice rockets like a Ninja and a CBR aren't made for all year round riders...these are little rice rockets made for wanna be knee draggers showing off. When you get to a 800cc you may come back to me and start talking bikes ;-)

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Wow! You really do seem like an uninformed bike snob! I have news for you. World motorcycle sales of 500cc's or less outsell larger bikes by a huge margin. By factors of 10? Sales figures are very difficult to obtain on the internet but there is a whole , wide world out there you seem to know nothing about. None of the bikes I mentioned are crotch rockets. They are all multiprupose standard bikes with sporty LOOKING (and very effectively aerodynamic) bodywork.
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The legislation that limits motorcycle headlight output to half of what a car gets is dangerously wrong and should be lobbied against for a change.

[Alibally]

Motorcycle lights are traditionally lower power probably due to the fact that the battery and charging systems were and are not as heavy duty as a car. ( when did you see a 100amp/hr and 200 amp alternator on a bike)
With the introduction of LED lighting hopefully this will change.

I thought the comment about the 800cc bike was a bit stupid. If your on any bike big or small your getting cold/wet/open to getting knocked off it etc.etc.....were all in it together.

[gn2]

I've had as much fun on an MZ TS150 as on a Kawasaki Z1300.
More cubes absolutely does not equate to more serious or more fun.

[Mel46]

Sendler, I wish my 2013 pcx had lights like you show in your picture, but it seems that on the American version of pre 2015 (I don't know about 2015 models, so can't comment) pcx the top light spaces and the bottom light spaces are empty, which means that we only get the two main lights, which are really insufficient. That is why both Dave and I have installed extra lights below the light 'pod'. If I could reach in those empty spaces easily I would add some more lights . Unfortunately this is not an option. I am guessing that for Honda it is an 'either or' situation in order to save them money. I understand that the lights on the American version draw more current than those normally sold in Asia as well, so this seems to be a manufacturer problem, not just a regulatory one.

[sendler2112]

In the 60's and 70's, bikes barely made enough electricity to keep running. But now, even affordable world bikes such as the PCX and CBR250R make 330 Watts which is more than enough for another light bulb to get on par with what cars have.

[sendler2112]

Sendler, the American version

The pre led headlights are the same world wide but the non US PCX's used the lenses above the headlights for turn signals.

[Mel46]

What are the bottom spaces for? They look like spaces for lights also.

[sendler2112]

Not sure if those were used as running lights in other markets. The USA CBR250R was nice with it's white running lights above the headlight and in that the front turn signals were also lit up at half power when not blinking as yellow front running lights. Some other markets didn't allow this.

[Alibally]

The bottom lenses are side lights. (5watt bulbs)
The headlamps are the hs5 headlamp bulbs and the others are indicators. Non US bikes don't have the stick out shrek ear indicators on the front.

The problem with having highs wattage bulbs on a PCX is that the load on the battery during the start stop system is high and could cause problems with a non start.

Lower wattage but brighter LED bulbs with well designed headlamps fixes this.

Obviously the start stop system isn't a problem in the U.S. as it's not fitted.

[djcat]

It was not a momentary dazzle, I sat in the passenger seat when it happened. The fact that illegal HIDs dazzle other road users and effectively put their lives at risk doesn't get better just because you are upset.

Headlights are a matter of regulation for a reason, if you want to increase your conspicuity there are plenty of ways of doing so without dazzling others. Maybe you could have looked into headlight performance as a feature of the bikes you were looking for but little sports bike rice rockets like a Ninja and a CBR aren't made for all year round riders...these are little rice rockets made for wanna be knee draggers showing off. When you get to a 800cc you may come back to me and start talking bikes ;-)

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Wow! You really do seem like an uninformed bike snob! I have news for you. World motorcycle sales of 500cc's or less outsell larger bikes by a huge margin. By factors of 10? Sales figures are very difficult to obtain on the internet but there is a whole , wide world out there you seem to know nothing about. None of the bikes I mentioned are crotch rockets. They are all multiprupose standard bikes with sporty LOOKING (and very effectively aerodynamic) bodywork.
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The legislation that limits motorcycle headlight output to half of what a car gets is dangerously wrong and should be lobbied against for a change.

Thanks for your assumptions about my person, given you did never ever meet me.

The fact that low CC bikes sell more then high CC ones is more a translation of practical reasons then anything - driving licence requirements included.

The bikes you had are rice rockets, I rode a CBR 600 RR myself! The light was rubbish, period.

Get a VFR 800, a XL1000, an F800S or even a Suzuki Bandit and you know that the light output is not due to regulation as you constantly go back to assuming, but a a feature of that vehicle. If you want a bike with decent light output, you need to get one with decent reflectors in the first place, no amount of dazzling, wrongly placed HID bulb will better that reflector!

There are cars with worse headlights then the ones the above mentioned bikes have, I ride a PCX myself and am happy with its headlight and do not think that making it scutter light to the stars will make me any safer.

Fact is that HIDs in factory headlamps are illegal, there is no regulation that limits light output to a limit below that of cars no matter how much you insist on it.

[Emlyn45]

I don't think it matters if you have more light than standard. You still get the same statement "sorry mate I didn't see you". I also run a BMW 800 St with dipped beam HID and a pair of daytime running lights and still got knocked off. Oh and high vis vest as well, plus extra tail and stop lights.
My PCX is the 2015 version With LED lights all round. Headlight is more that adequate for night time driving so it will stay as is, no more lights up front.
I am considering putting them on the Dommie as well.

[sendler2112]

My DDM Tuning H7 conversion to HID is throwing a perfect pattern in my new Yamaha R3. Nice job Yamaha with the lens design and to DDM Tuning for manufacturing the most accurate replacement bulbs. Notice the perfect vertical cut off with ZERO splash. And even a slight dip in the left side of the pattern. DDM is giving these kits away for $29. For a Pair!
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[you you]

My DDM Tuning H7 conversion to HID is throwing a perfect pattern in my new Yamaha R3. Nice job Yamaha with the lens design and to DDM Tuning for manufacturing the most accurate replacement bulbs. Notice the perfect vertical cut off with ZERO splash. And even a slight dip in the left side of the pattern. DDM is giving these kits away for $29. For a Pair!
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Did you mean horizontal cut off?