Variator... better performance..? Pro's and Con's..?

[ThailandPCX]

Hello PCX Form... I am new to the PCX world... I am looking at the JCosta Variator... WOW - what a radical design.... definitely takes a new approach to Variators... So, I would like to know about the Jcosta variator from people that have actually used them... (1) Did you gain any higher top speed..? (2) Really - did you notice smoother shifting..? (3) Acceleration better or not?.. (4) What's the real deal?..

I have watched YouTube... looks cool and every thing... but, also someone showed a problem.. keep reading...

I see the design and being a mechanical engineer with tool design... I think it would be a slight maintenance problem.. because you would need to clean often... since those little nub rollers need to spin around during operation... Any dirt get in there - they wouldn't spin and wear a flat spot very quickly... you would have to take your Jcosta variator and throw in the garbage after that..?

So, my advice and I do not own one... DON'T Lubricate the nub rollers... this will ONLY collect dirt..

If the rollers are a high strength nylon compound they are self lubricating...

Any body here.... good or bad..?? Pro's or Con's..??

Thanks, Russell

[homie]

can you link us to the video illustration? I want to see the lubricated nubs... spinning.
please

[ThailandPCX]

nomie, the video on YouTube was a installation video... I was Only guessing that the little nubs would be spinning... anytime you put a round device into a conical shape... IE: the nub only touching on the outer surface... it is going to make it spin... whether is spins or does not spin... I Don't Know... If it is Not spinning... (1) Why make it round... (2) Sure as heck it will wear a flat spot... (3) If the nubs are spinning - I would believe that this is the beauty of this device and long life span.

Just with this radical design... IE: Nobody else followed Jcosta into this design... I just wanted to know if it is actually better than the more traditional designs out thiere, stock, Malossi, Polini, NCY variators... or is it nothing more than a novelty varaitor... and the design is Not long term use proven..?

[Valiant]

From what I heard, the jcosta variator was extremely disappointing. I believe NCY and Daytona are the current favorites.

[Pcxdemon]

From what I heard, the jcosta variator was extremely disappointing. I believe NCY and Daytona are the current favorites.

Don't forget MFR2 is very sweet too, if not sweetest of all..
*in combination with 14deg outer face and preferably stright grove rear torque driver...I suppose that goes for all of them.

[Blubayou]

I don't want to dissuade anyone from trying variators, weights etc... but I have been playing with weights & also a Takegawa variator with very little if no improvement.

I have been measuring acceleration over a standing quarter mile using a GPS app.

Stock time 21.26 secs

With Takegawa variator, 10g weights as recommended 20.7 secs & somewhat thrashier.

I have tried lots of weights inbetween too with no significant improvements.

Mr Honda knows a thing or two about setting up his transmission for a good balance of performance & economy

On the plus side my stock variator was very worn, using the Takegawa with a new stock drive face has took the top end gearing up so more downhill speed for me.

This does increase my avaerge speed over a given distance.

I did try Dr Pulleys at one stage with the worn variator. Standing quarter 19.66s. These clearly have potential, I will try them in my current set up at some point.

I fear they will pop the drive belt too far out, it's right at the top now.

[Pcxdemon]

[quote="Blubayou"]I don't want to dissuade anyone from trying variators, weights etc... but I have been playing with weights & also a Takegawa variator with very little if no improvement.

I have been measuring acceleration over a standing quarter mile using a GPS app.

Stock time 21.26 secs

With Takegawa variator, 10g weights as recommended 20.7 secs & somewhat thrashier.

I have tried lots of weights inbetween too with no significant improvements.

Mr Honda knows a thing or two about setting up his transmission for a good balance of performance & economy

On the plus side my stock variator was very worn, using the Takegawa with a new stock drive face has took the top end gearing up so more downhill speed for me.

This does increase my avaerge speed over a given distance.

I did try Dr Pulleys at one stage with the worn variator. Standing quarter 19.66s. These clearly have potential, I will try them in my current set up at some point.

I fear they will pop the drive belt too far out, it's right at the top now.[/

[waspmike]

Hello PCX Form... I am new to the PCX world... I am looking at the JCosta Variator... WOW - what a radical design.... definitely takes a new approach to Variators... So, I would like to know about the Jcosta variator from people that have actually used them... (1) Did you gain any higher top speed..? (2) Really - did you notice smoother shifting..? (3) Acceleration better or not?.. (4) What's the real deal?..

I have watched YouTube... looks cool and every thing... but, also someone showed a problem.. keep reading...

I see the design and being a mechanical engineer with tool design... I think it would be a slight maintenance problem.. because you would need to clean often... since those little nub rollers need to spin around during operation... Any dirt get in there - they wouldn't spin and wear a flat spot very quickly... you would have to take your Jcosta variator and throw in the garbage after that..?

So, my advice and I do not own one... DON'T Lubricate the nub rollers... this will ONLY collect dirt..

If the rollers are a high strength nylon compound they are self lubricating...

Any body here.... good or bad..?? Pro's or Con's..??

Thanks, Russell

Hi Russel,

As the variator is spinning at crankshaft speed is is difficult for any dirt to enter and if it does it is not likely that it can get down into the holes for the weights because of centrifugal force. While the weights do spin or move at idle they also slide during operation, so wear in theory is even. But yes the instructions do say clean before installing and do not put any grease on the bushing, as it may cause the self lubricating bushing to stick. There is an offshoot of J Costa than has square section weights, which run in square section holes and they don't spin either.

Why would you have to throw away a perfectly usable variator just because the weights are worn out? Which someday they will, just like any other variator. You simply replace the weights, just like any other variator.

J Costa is a performance variator, the company/technology was pioneered by an ex circuit racing scooter champion so it is easy to see how they might be biased towards attributes that benefit circuit racing type riding. If one lives outside the cities and rides on country roads where one is on and off the throttle because of overtaking traffic and corners or if one lives in hilly country, then roll-on acceleration out of corners seems to be more important. Then J Costa seems to be the variator of choice. From this forum because the other forums I checked were not PCX specific where it seems there are many that ride a lot on wide open roads, freeways or urban expressway where sustained high-speed cruising and top speed is the valued attribute then the Daytona/Advance Pro combination seems to win out.

Another difference maybe in business model in that J Costa do not sell variators in a set with a choice of weights for the customer to play with. You can if you want they just don't sell them that way. They sell a variator specifically made for that scooter which has been optimized so it only comes with one set of weights. An after market exhaust will bring out the very best though. On the other hand if you want a circuit racing variator for a scooter they do offer those, but mostly for 50cc European 2-stroke models and the Yamaha T Max as they are the only scooters for which there is are racing classes in Spain. Some of those do come with a selection of weights allowing tuning for different circuits.

There are other variators like the Italian FR4 which is still based on a conventional one but has angled sliders to pivot the ramp plate as the weights move. The theory being that the rotating action lengthens the ramp giving more ratios. Mostly designed with small 50-75cc scooter in mind it can be used on some 150's.

Just like car transmissions there are various choices and designs suited to different driving styles, they all have pros and cons. Manual is easy but requires skill and effort. auto takes away effort but has a tendency to be slushy, twin clutch works well, gives better acceleration, usually has a wider spread of ratios but is expensive. Which one? As always depends on the customer?

[maddiedog]

Variators depend very much on the user and use case scenario.

Where I live, it's VERY hilly. I'm very light for an American, but regardless, I get diminishing returns with gearing and variator upgrades because it makes absolutely no sense to have a 75mph top speed if you can't climb a hill on a busy road at any speed above 35 without the engine bogging down from such a steep gear ratio.

Heavier users or people in hillier areas will see little improvement from a variator. If you live in a coastal area where it is flat, and weigh under 150lbs, you will likely see good improvements in top speed from a variator.

My PCX in Florida (probably the flattest state in the USA), with a Takegawa big bore kit and aftermarket gearing and aftermarket variator, ZOOMS to the limiter. The speedometer is off because of the gearing, but it reads around 65, and is close to 75mph gps. It gets there fast and can cruise down the highway with ease. In Atlanta, where it is hilly, there are many small hills where my PCX struggles to maintain 55mph on the speedometer with my 150lbs of weight on it. Huge hills can drop to 50mph on the speedometer, even with the big bore kit.

The PCX is a little bike. Tuning the variator for your weight and use case scenario are very situation-dependent, and you may see gains, losses, or no change with a variator.

[waspmike]

From what I heard, the jcosta variator was extremely disappointing. I believe NCY and Daytona are the current favorites.

It is horses for courses. J Costa is not really designed for constant high speed use like constant flat out on an Interstate. It is for slightly higher than average cruising and is excellent as a point and squirt variator for exiting corners, overtaking on two lane roads or climbing hills.

Variators depend very much on the user and use case scenario.

Where I live, it's VERY hilly. I'm very light for an American, but regardless, I get diminishing returns with gearing and variator upgrades because it makes absolutely no sense to have a 75mph top speed if you can't climb a hill on a busy road at any speed above 35 without the engine bogging down from such a steep gear ratio.

Heavier users or people in hillier areas will see little improvement from a variator.

MD. Not sure exactly how hilly you are but you will see benefits in hilly areas with the right set up. On a roughly 10% grade a stock new 125 ESP gains between 18 and 24 kph depending on rider weight (100 to 70 kgs). Obviously on very steep hills it is down to torque which as you say is limited on a small scooter

[ThailandPCX]

Thanks To Every One here for their reply.... Nice read and hear what other fellow PXC riders had to said about their experience.... and their knowledge... with regards to Variator's

Happy Scootering..!!! from Thailand PCX rider....

[hatari]

I had a J Coster fitted to my 2012 125cc.....

The downside is that its noisy......

Plus side.....well it is a tad quicker and a bit quicker on top speed and if you want to spend your hard earnt money jollying up your PCX, then fill your boots.....

[waspmike]

^ I see you must have given up on Pattaya and moved to Hua Hin.

[hatari]

^ I see you must have given up on Pattaya and moved to Hua Hin.

yes, 8 months ago....The 3 C's finally did it for me - Construction, Conjestion, Crunts 'n arseholes....

Sent me a pm if you fancy a chat.....

[sendler2112]

I have been measuring acceleration over a standing quarter mile using a GPS app.

Measuring standing 1/4 mile times is not the best metric for showing improvements in acceleration since the variator is topped out for much of a run this long. And there is always a lag on take off that is programmed into the the computer. 10-50 mph is the most revealing of changes. And then top speed can be looked at seperately.

[Pcxdemon]

I have been measuring acceleration over a standing quarter mile using a GPS app.

Measuring standing 1/4 mile times is not the best metric for showing improvements in acceleration since the variator is topped out for much of a run this long. And there is always a lag on take off that is programmed into the the computer. 10-50 mph is the most revealing of changes. And then top speed can be looked at seperately.

There are no lags or delays programmed in to the ecu!
Do yourself a favour and buy MFR 2 vario from webike and you will realise any lag you have is with your vario set up. MFR 2 is the best!

[sendler2112]

There are no lags or delays programmed in to the ecu!

Sure there is. From a stand still, the ecu selects a lower power setting for the tenth of a second either through timing or fuel injection to limit the force on the clutch initial engagement and make the bike easier to control around parking lots.

[Pcxdemon]

Delay is because of your stock vario...as I said get yourself mfr2 vario or even kitaco with it's supplied belt and you will have no more delays on takeoff..

[sendler2112]

Definitely not the drive train.

[Pcxdemon]

Umm ok....I am talking from direct expirience and testing.
What data are you quoting about inbuilt delay in the ecu, link?