Fatter tyres after motorway scare

[dasshreddar]

Hey djcat, I think Black Bandit is running 100/90/14 front and rear...
When it comes time to buy tires, I will probably do 110/80 rear and a 100/80 front if I can find them in the US.

[gn2]

Wider tyres are probably not the best bet.
If you really want rid of the (perfectly acceptable) OEM IRC tyres, a switch to Michelin City Grip or Pirelli Diablo in the correct size would be my suggestion.
As for heavy braking, instead of equal pressures on both, I use much harder on the left lever than the right

[Taz]

also go somewhere and practice emergency stops, away from traffic. I did a course and we spent nearly an hour just refining emergency stops on a quiet backstreet and that gives you confidence. Im still on stock tires.

[you you]

Have you checked your tyre pressures?

[djcat]

I practice emergency stops regularly, just not from 60 mph. Was also much less drama on a BMW F800S where I could get the rear wheel in the air and continue in a straight line at the same time....

[you you]

I practice emergency stops regularly, just not from 60 mph. Was also much less drama on a BMW F800S where I could get the rear wheel in the air and continue in a straight line at the same time....

Ah the stoppie - excellent fun. No chance on a PCX though

[Ben2talk]

I think you always blame the machine.
I have a shady history - when I lost my licence (after my stick on L plate peeled off for the third time due to salty spray in Blackpool, I responded by buying an RS250 single and escaping every time the police asked me to stop...

I ran that until I saw a patch of canvas, after the canvas there was more black rubber. I rode it in the rain too. I never fell off... but I did increase my level of caution quite substantially.

Now after selling my GSX-R and getting this nasty little PCX I'm going through the same process... I cannot expect the brakes on a bike that cost me 80,000 to perform quite as well as those on a bike that would cost over 800,000 baht new. I do rather wish the front brakes had sillly dual disks and were rather sharper than they are... however I think this is more of a shopping bike with slick advertising.

Practice... first use only your left hand. That brings in 1 front pot on the front, then squeeze in the other hand. Just see how hard you can squeeze them - I found no limit in the dry yet (damn, that's scary. I used to love squeaking my front tyre on the GSX just to wake up the bike-taxis at the end of the soi).

Remember the cost ratio here.... purchase, running, servicing, and put that grin back on your face.

[Oyabun]

Braking can be improved by working on the brakes. Good tires help to keep traction though.
I'm running 110/80 at the front and 120/80 heidenau k66s at the rear and they are significantly better than stock. Keep in mind that in aqaplanning and snow conditions wider tires are not necessary better on a featherweight bike like the pcx (due to decreased contact pressure per surface area) however I like the slightly beefier look a lot more. They are 2.7% larger than stock, so no real issues even with mounting and your speedo will get more realistic too.
The rear fits without any issue, on the front I had to shave the "hair" from the side of the tire but it fits perfectly in diameter. A LOT better grip in damp and cold than the stock IRCs. Those who did never slip on the stock tires just never pushed hard enough. I did. Also on these been able to control the situation both times, but with the heidenau the limits are a lot farther. Said that I'll most probably mount back the IRCs for the summer as they have enough life left and they OK on good dry tarmac.
As for the brakes search for my topic on brake upgrades. We tested head to head with a friend of mine (he is a bike journalist btw) against his stock 2014 pcx (at that time i was running on ircs still). Changed bikes back and forth and both of us found mine a lot better in control and recorded slightly shorter braking distances too.

[fish]

Regarding tire grip : Talk with a trusted MC tire mechanic about running a bigger tire vs the stock tire size.
I have it from two veteran MC dealer mechanics that you gain nothing, and maybe even lose a bit of tire patch area, when you increase the tire size without increasing the rim size !
Their advice is keep the correct tire size as stipulated in the owner's manual, and buy the best tire you can afford. Knobby winter tires decrease the contact patch on reg. pavement (another bad idea unless you ride in snow to work - like dirt bike tires on the street - not good.
Fish

[Mister Paul]

This doesn't sound right. Your bike shouldn't be squirming like that on an emergency stop. Unless you're too close to the vehicle in front, and really panicking.

I commuted 25 miles each way on the M5 for a few weeks on my 110 Vision, while waiting for my Forza. It was adequate. I got into the knack of tucking behind a truck (you don't have to get too close) and letting it tow me along. It's not ideal, but I didn't feel overly unsafe and it kept up with the nearside lane traffic.

[waspmike]

and come to a stop just an inch from the car's bumper.

DJCAT,

Maybe your problem was fixation? A PCX only needs about 1/2 car's width you could have ridden down the inside of the car in front? Instead of avoidance you chose fixation ?

Just asking.

[dkazzed]

Narrower tires are better for hydroplaning resistance.

[djcat]

Braking can be improved by working on the brakes. Good tires help to keep traction though.
I'm running 110/80 at the front and 120/80 heidenau k66s at the rear and they are significantly better than stock.
...
The rear fits without any issue, on the front I had to shave the "hair" from the side of the tire but it fits perfectly in diameter. A LOT better grip in damp and cold than the stock IRCs. Those who did never slip on the stock tires just never pushed hard enough. I did. Also on these been able to control the situation both times, but with the heidenau the limits are a lot farther.
...
As for the brakes search for my topic on brake upgrades. We tested head to head with a friend of mine (he is a bike journalist btw) against his stock 2014 pcx (at that time i was running on ircs still). Changed bikes back and forth and both of us found mine a lot better in control and recorded slightly shorter braking distances too.

First of all, thanks for your replies two years later :-) In the meantime I moved countries, took the PCX with me of course.

Oyabun, you have exactly the same tyre setup as I have, except that I run a 100 sized K66 in the front the my rear K66 is a Snowtex winter spec one. I agree 1000% with your experience on grip, I always said and always will say that the IRCs are not made for cold climates and that the grip is just not good enough. I have upgrade brake pads from TRW in the front as well.

In my experience, a lot of the common knowledge that applies to regular bikes just does not apply to that little scooter, I always thought that fatter bike tyres aren´t translated into better grip (e.g. going from a 180 rear to a 190 rear on an F800S or GSXR....) but it definitely made my ride much smoother and safer to upgrade fat tyres on this little scooter.

[djcat]

and come to a stop just an inch from the car's bumper.

DJCAT,

Maybe your problem was fixation? A PCX only needs about 1/2 car's width you could have ridden down the inside of the car in front? Instead of avoidance you chose fixation ?

Just asking.

No, it wasn´t. No, I couldn´t. And avoidance is worse than braking, most people trying to avoid stuff end up hitting something else or loosing control completely.

[djcat]

Narrower tires are better for hydroplaning resistance.

In principle, yes. But a fat well engineered tyre is still better at it then a rubbish narrow one.

[djcat]

This doesn't sound right. Your bike shouldn't be squirming like that on an emergency stop. Unless you're too close to the vehicle in front, and really panicking.

I commuted 25 miles each way on the M5 for a few weeks on my 110 Vision, while waiting for my Forza. It was adequate. I got into the knack of tucking behind a truck (you don't have to get too close) and letting it tow me along. It's not ideal, but I didn't feel overly unsafe and it kept up with the nearside lane traffic.

I agree it shouldn´t have done that, however I didn´t panic as if I had, I would not have been able to control the slide and execute the emergency stop.

[djcat]

I think you always blame the machine.
I have a shady history - when I lost my licence (after my stick on L plate peeled off for the third time due to salty spray in Blackpool, I responded by buying an RS250 single and escaping every time the police asked me to stop...

I ran that until I saw a patch of canvas, after the canvas there was more black rubber. I rode it in the rain too. I never fell off... but I did increase my level of caution quite substantially.

Now after selling my GSX-R and getting this nasty little PCX I'm going through the same process... I cannot expect the brakes on a bike that cost me 80,000 to perform quite as well as those on a bike that would cost over 800,000 baht new. I do rather wish the front brakes had sillly dual disks and were rather sharper than they are... however I think this is more of a shopping bike with slick advertising.

Practice... first use only your left hand. That brings in 1 front pot on the front, then squeeze in the other hand. Just see how hard you can squeeze them - I found no limit in the dry yet (damn, that's scary. I used to love squeaking my front tyre on the GSX just to wake up the bike-taxis at the end of the soi).

Remember the cost ratio here.... purchase, running, servicing, and put that grin back on your face.

Of course I blame the machine, and especially the IRCs that I threw away anyway. No other two wheeler I had ridden before was that rubbish at low temperatures. Thanks for your suggestions on emergency braking, I train that skill for the last eight years now, especially after my IAM instructor told me it would be a good idea to always keep that skill up.

[you you]

I think you always blame the machine.
I have a shady history - when I lost my licence (after my stick on L plate peeled off for the third time due to salty spray in Blackpool, I responded by buying an RS250 single and escaping every time the police asked me to stop...

I ran that until I saw a patch of canvas, after the canvas there was more black rubber. I rode it in the rain too. I never fell off... but I did increase my level of caution quite substantially.

Now after selling my GSX-R and getting this nasty little PCX I'm going through the same process... I cannot expect the brakes on a bike that cost me 80,000 to perform quite as well as those on a bike that would cost over 800,000 baht new. I do rather wish the front brakes had sillly dual disks and were rather sharper than they are... however I think this is more of a shopping bike with slick advertising.

Practice... first use only your left hand. That brings in 1 front pot on the front, then squeeze in the other hand. Just see how hard you can squeeze them - I found no limit in the dry yet (damn, that's scary. I used to love squeaking my front tyre on the GSX just to wake up the bike-taxis at the end of the soi).

Remember the cost ratio here.... purchase, running, servicing, and put that grin back on your face.

Of course I blame the machine, and especially the IRCs that I threw away anyway. No other two wheeler I had ridden before was that rubbish at low temperatures. Thanks for your suggestions on emergency braking, I train that skill for the last eight years now, especially after my IAM instructor told me it would be a good idea to always keep that skill up.

You're an advanced motorcyclist?

[iceman]

If the IRC's were that bad, and as Honda fit them to 10'000's of their scooters over the years, the media would be having a field day with so many injured bikers due to the crap and out-right lethal tyres Honda fit to their products. Not seen that reported yet.

[dkazzed]

The IRCs on my CBR 125R were very good. Never had a problem with them through the wettest weather.