djcat wrote:Yes, but the PCX has a continuously variable transmission, meaning it isn't a constant ratio.
But at any particular rpm (cadence in cycling terms) a longer gear (longer development in cycling terms) means a higher workload.
At any particular speed if the gearing is lengthened to give lower rpm, the workload on the engine will be increased.
Get out on your bike, ride up a long steady slope at say 20mph on the small chainring at a cadence of 100/min then change to the big chainring and maintain the 20mph with the reduced cadence.
Easier?
I think not.
Four decades on two wheels has taught me nothing, all advice given is guaranteed to be wrong
That is true if the transmission is longer across the board but my understanding is that the only thing a transmission mod will allow is that it will have a longer final ratio at top speed or at constant speed.
In any case, I think that we are taking this to a different level which is away from the original question. I think that the PCX can handle 2 up transport well for some time, I wouldn't want to cross continents on it 2 up but if you don't need to go 100 mph and prefer to be closer to 100mpg, its ok (especially with a back rest for the missus). If you want some higher top end, its possible to get it with a slight modification, if you are ok with the roundabout 60mph top speed in a straight line and tail wind stock should do. That it will take some time to get there 2 up I think is also clear but my experience 2 up (95Kg & 55Kg respectively for me and my missus plus the gear) is that it accelerates well away from red lights, faster than most car drivers and up to 40 - 50 mph it keeps its lead with normally driven cars.
qed wrote:What about theory 4 in that it isn't specifically limited, just that is as fast as its meagre power output and the laws of physics will carry it?
qed wrote:What about theory 4 in that it isn't specifically limited, just that is as fast as its meagre power output and the laws of physics will carry it?
I'd like to name it the qed theory, after me
That makes absolute sense to me.
Cheersmedears
It is a dull theory though isn't it. Where is the fun in being realistic
qed wrote:It is a dull theory though isn't it. Where is the fun in being realistic
Crazy long argument over something that would have been very easy sort out if anyone would have put a tach on their bike instead of continually guessing for over a year and a half. The PCX125 barely has enough power to top out on it's best day at 100 kph actual speed. True enough. The one I rode was leveling off at 96 when I ran out of room to torture a brand new bike any further. And if you are going down hill with a tail wind the rev limiter is set up to work with the stock gearing to electronically limit it to 100 kph which has been reported as a surging. At 9200 rpm. The PCX150 has enough power to go 110 kph. Maybe 115. But it is electronically limited by a rev limiter at 9600. Which with the stock gearing happens to be 110 kph, 68 mph. Really.
djcat wrote:my understanding is that the only thing a transmission mod will allow is that it will have a longer final ratio at top speed or at constant speed.
You can alter the characteristics of a CVT to produce all sorts of results.
The CVT is designed in conjunction with the engine and it is optimised to give the best balance of performance, economy and reliability.
A bunch of amateurs fannying around with various custom bits and bobs in a shed are highly unlikely to produce a better solution than Honda already have.
Four decades on two wheels has taught me nothing, all advice given is guaranteed to be wrong
^
Hear, hear (or is it here, here - I don't know - anyway), my feelings exactly.
I don't think Honda needs to take lessons from anybody. The pcx is what it is and we all bought it having read reviews and having seen Honda's tech specs for it. Speaking personally, I saw the mpg figure and thought WOW, I want that in my life. The mpg is the main reason why I bought this scoot, its good looks and practicality are second and third reasons (in no particular order).
Don't forget this scooter is really designed for use in towns and cities, something at which it excels, the fact that it can be used for longer journeys or touring is a bonus that we can be glad of but we must accept its limitations on speed.
Don't forget this scooter is really designed for use in towns and cities, something at which it excels, and where 60+mph speeds could/should/will cost you your license. The fact that it can be used for longer journeys or touring is a bonus that we can be glad of, but we must accept its limitations, we all made an informed decision to buy it didn't we? I didn't. I thought I had. I read a review on the MCN website that said it did 70mph!
Yep, when I got mine I thought it would be capable of 70 and at least be able to stay ahead of lorries.
Well it isn't and it can't.
It's still a cracking litle scooter though and I still enjoy riding mine after two years of ownership.
Still hankering after something quicker, but truth be told, I don't really need a faster scooter.
Four decades on two wheels has taught me nothing, all advice given is guaranteed to be wrong
gn2 wrote:Yep, when I got mine I thought it would be capable of 70 and at least be able to stay ahead of lorries.
Well it isn't and it can't.
It's still a cracking litle scooter though and I still enjoy riding mine after two years of ownership.
Still hankering after something quicker, but truth be told, I don't really need a faster scooter.
It's pretty much the way I see it. I bought mine after doing quite a bit of research on what 125 cc scooter to buy. Final options were the Kymco Superdink (your Downtown), Gilera Nexus and PCX. The Nexus was tempting, I liked the storage capacity of the Superdink, but was impressed by the PCX's fuel efficiency and price tag. More than a 1000€ difference with the two others made a difference that paid for a good holidays.
I do urban riding mostly. This is where this scoot excels, as you say, and I won't be spending 200€ on a new variator just to get 5 extra kmh and worsen the fuel efficiency, no way. I'd like a more powerful scooter. It's more than likely that I'll move on to something bigger in the future, but for the time being, the PCX is the best one I could have bought. Something bigger would mean worse mpg, but better storage capacity, better acceleration in this city (thus improving riding safety), and being motorway capable.
I'm happy. I use it for a 60 mph round trip on tight country lanes where 50mph is pushing it a bit. So I cruise at that speed and enjoy myself
Why bother with a faster bike/scooter? I can hit over 120mph on the BMW on the same journey but only for fractions of a second Average speed is only a couple of miles up
gn2 wrote:A bunch of amateurs fannying around with various custom bits and bobs in a shed are highly unlikely to produce a better solution than Honda already have.
That's not necessarily true. I've cited the K-mod for the Honda Reflex before, but I'm bringing it up again as a point here. They found that removing half the weights in the variator added much acceleration with minimal effect on top speed. I'm hoping all the fannying around will have the opposite effect for the PCX -- a cheap or free way to add 3-5mph with minimal adverse effects on acceleration. It's a complete pipe dream, but it's not right to try to put down those willing to try. I respect them for their tenacity, because it is ludicrous to consider getting more speed out of an economy vehicle already operating at near full-power.
The "qed theory" is easily disproven -- put your bike on the centerstand, make sure the front end stays down, and rev that fucker up however high it will let you. I guarantee you the speedometer (which is electronic, driven from the rear wheel) will indicate the same top speed you see on the road. This further supports Sendler's statement (verified with his tach) that the PCX has a rev limiter controlled by the ECU.
gn2 wrote:A bunch of amateurs fannying around with various custom bits and bobs in a shed are highly unlikely to produce a better solution than Honda already have.
That's not necessarily true. I've cited the K-mod for the Honda Reflex before, but I'm bringing it up again as a point here. They found that removing half the weights in the variator added much acceleration with minimal effect on top speed. I'm hoping all the fannying around will have the opposite effect for the PCX -- a cheap or free way to add 3-5mph with minimal adverse effects on acceleration. It's a complete pipe dream, but it's not right to try to put down those willing to try. I respect them for their tenacity, because it is ludicrous to consider getting more speed out of an economy vehicle already operating at near full-power.
The "qed theory" is easily disproven -- put your bike on the centerstand, make sure the front end stays down, and rev that fucker up however high it will let you. I guarantee you the speedometer (which is electronic, driven from the rear wheel) will indicate the same top speed you see on the road. This further supports Sendler's statement (verified with his tach) that the PCX has a rev limiter controlled by the ECU.
How does that disprove my theory, which is essentially that it has a sparrows farts worth of horsepower? Its just hitting a rev limit without load. The rev limit reached could be mechanical or it could be electronic.
maddiedog wrote:That's not necessarily true. I've cited the K-mod for the Honda Reflex before, but I'm bringing it up again as a point here. They found that removing half the weights in the variator added much acceleration with minimal effect on top speed.
They also found that the engine operated at high rpm almost all the time.
This has an impact on economy and in all probability reliability/longevity too.
Whether this all stacks up as a better "solution" is a matter of opinion.
Mine is that the K-mod is not a better solution.
Four decades on two wheels has taught me nothing, all advice given is guaranteed to be wrong
Valid -- but like with all performance-related issues, it's a trade-off. Would I sacrifice 10mpg, $100, and a few thousand miles of lifetime for an extra 5-10mph? Maybe. It's hard to say. That's the whole point of encouraging people to mod though, it gives more people options for what they can and can't do with their bikes.
Cutting the weights by removing half of them would be way too much change for the PCX. Or any bike it seems. Going to 11gm times 6 rollers would make the PCX as quick as it can be for 0-40 mph but won't help top speed at all. A PCX125 is about out of power at 62 anyway but a 150 might break 70 if we get the belt all the way out on the pulleys.
