The Honda PCX / Forza / ADV150 / SH Forums

bikeypikey wrote:I blame mine on the combi brake system

Time for an old saying: It's a bad workman who blames his tools.
If you were going fast enough for the front end to lock and lose all control when you panic braked, then you can hardly blame the brakes for your inappropriate speed for the prevailing conditions.
You can't just "grab a handful of both brakes" on a loose surface, even on a bike without a combi system.

In his defense though, the combi brake is completely different in emergency braking situations than normal brakes... If you have the back brake properly adjusted, it's really easy to lock up both tires simultaneously. It takes a lot of getting used to. Plus, you can hardly call him a bad workman since he just got his PCX.

I have the opposite problem -- the two bikes I've put the most mileage on (my old Honda Reflex, and now the PCX) both have linked brakes. Riding something without linked brakes makes emergency braking completely different, and I've had a couple of close calls on other scooters as a result. It's a lot easier to lock up the rear without the combi brake, so I regularly accidentally lock up the rear on my wife's Buddy 125.

maddiedog wrote:If you have the back brake properly adjusted, it's really easy to lock up both tires simultaneously.

My understanding of how the combi brake is designed to work is that the braking effort spilts so that the rear is greater than the front so that the rear should lock before the front.

I agree that the combi robs the rider of a certain element of control of the brakes, but in the circumstances described, to blame the conbi system is simply ludicrous.

@gn2 - thanks for the welcome. Looking back at some of your previous posts, you come across as a contentious/obnoxious character so I don't know why the fuck I am bothering to waste my time replying to your inane comments - probably for the benefit of myself and others who value different points of view. Anyway, just this once, here goes.

Like I said, I have a lot of experience of bikes going back 30+ years but I have zero experience of this weird combi brake apart from an old Moto Guzzi Le Mans Mk V I had in 1999 but that was just a tractor and I sold it after a few thousand km.

So, I got caught out by Honda's attempt to idiot proof braking. I'm no idiot and like to be able to brake how I see fit. "Grabbing a handful" is an expression that if you have a few miles on two wheels under your belt, you should be familiar with - it's not a phrase to be taken absolutely literally.........

You say that the rear should be lock before the front with the combi brake and indeed, if that was the case, then absolutely no probs - I used to supermoto an XR440 that I built myself and breaking the back wheel out either under power or on the brakes was a hoot.

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However, having the front tuck unexpectedly whilst performing a reasonably familiar manoeuvre is pretty damn dangerous IMO. I'll investigate disabling the combi brake and if I come up with an easily workable solution, I'll post the procedure.

Maddiedog - thanks for your understanding and I hope this post only offends the person it is meant to offend .

Cheers,

Pikey.

bikeypikey wrote:you come across as a contentious/obnoxious character

Yep telling people they are wrong often gets their back up.
I'm really not intending to be obnoxious or contentious, I just say what I think.
If you object to any of my posts, report them.

I still think I'm right.
If you locked the wheels under braking and went down it's because you made an error.
Simple as that.

I too have decades of riding and driving experience having ridden hundreds of thousands of miles around the UK and Europe both for pleasure and professionally.
I am familiar with language used by ptw riders.
"Closing the door" is a racing term.
It says a lot about your attitude towards how you use the road.
Maybe time you had a re-think...?

I too have made errors on the road.
As I see it, a big difference between you and me is that I admit my mistakes, I don't blame the bike.
Any time I have come off (see I can do biker talk too) it was down to my error, even the time when I t-boned a SMIDSYing car that turned right across my path.

I've not ridden a mk 5 Le Mans, only a mk 1 and a California.
Lovely bikes, but not to everyone's taste.

Agree to disagree, and leave it at that, please.

I don't like violence.

Disabling the combi brake should be simple enough, just run a cable direct from the left lever to the brake drum.
Or maybe draining the hydraulic fluid out would be even easier...?

You can pull the PCX up real quick on tarmac, its so light. Last weekend I went on an advanced course with an hour focused on shorter and shorter emergency stops. I am sure I was stopping quicker than the big bikes with ABS that were on the course. And by the way Ive also been riding for 20 years plus. One cruiser kept locking his rear wheel up and thats when you need to keep practicing till you get the balance of front and back brakes right, or go and buy a bike with ABS.

gn2 keep your opinions coming, its the main reason I read this fourm!

Taz wrote:gn2 keep your opinions coming, its the main reason I read this fourm!

Can't be, surely there's much more interesting and useful stuff on here than my cantankerous ranting...?

gn2 wrote:


I still think I'm right.
If you locked the wheels under braking and went down it's because you made an error.
Simple as that.

OK, I'll concede that it was my error but in so much as I should have taken time to learn the braking characteristics of the PCX before I needed to use them in a situation such as that. I was really surprised by going down as I was only doing 8-10mph and it was completely unexpected. Traffic here is nuts with hoards of scooters and cars/trucks vying for the same space and many a time on my commute I have had to brake sharply (not "panic" brake). With Honda's combi system, it would seem that instead of me thinking I was braking 50/50 or even 60/40, the system adds another 20 or so % to the front which was enough to overload the front tyre on the dusty surface and down ol' Pikey went. Guaranteed that is the only time that will happen!

I'll agree to disagree as was suggested and will even offer my apologies for my rant at you but when someone criticizes my riding, particularly from the safety of behind a keyboard, yes, it does get my back up......

Moving on, initially looking at the front brake, there's 2 hydraulic lines but without taking the plastics off, it's hard to work out exactly what is going on. It's got to be a mechanical/hydraulic setup and I imagine removing the relevant hose and blanking it off at the caliper would do the trick.

Cheers,

Pikey.

You can't disable the combi brake without losing some stopping power, if my memory serves me correctly. The front brake has 3 pistons -- one of which is hooked to the combi brake. The other two are actuated by the front lever.

So, your assumption that you had an extra 20% or so more braking on the front is actually dead-on truth!

maddiedog wrote:You can't disable the combi brake without losing some stopping power, if my memory serves me correctly. The front brake has 3 pistons -- one of which is hooked to the combi brake. The other two are actuated by the front lever.

So, your assumption that you had an extra 20% or so more braking on the front is actually dead-on truth! :lol:

20% more unwanted braking I'll add!

Cheers,

Pikey.

bikeypikey wrote:OK, I'll concede that it was my error but in so much as I should have taken time to learn the braking characteristics of the PCX before I needed to use them in a situation such as that.

Exactly my point.

bikeypikey wrote: I was really surprised by going down as I was only doing 8-10mph and it was completely unexpected.

Because you hadn't yet adequately familiarised yourself with your vehicle's braking system.

bikeypikey wrote:Traffic here is nuts with hoards of scooters and cars/trucks vying for the same space and many a time on my commute I have had to brake sharply (not "panic" brake).

Anytime you have to brake hard it's because you have not read the road ahead well enough.

bikeypikey wrote:With Honda's combi system, it would seem that instead of me thinking I was braking 50/50 or even 60/40, the system adds another 20 or so % to the front which was enough to overload the front tyre on the dusty surface and down ol' Pikey went. Guaranteed that is the only time that will happen!

Learning from a mistake. I like it.

bikeypikey wrote:I'll agree to disagree as was suggested and will even offer my apologies for my rant at you but when someone criticizes my riding, particularly from the safety of behind a keyboard, yes, it does get my back up......

Looks like we actually agree.
No apologies required, I fully understand why you would have been p'd off at me.
And for the record if we were down the pub chatting face to face over a beer I would tell you the exact same thing.

bikeypikey wrote:Moving on, initially looking at the front brake, there's 2 hydraulic lines but without taking the plastics off, it's hard to work out exactly what is going on. It's got to be a mechanical/hydraulic setup and I imagine removing the relevant hose and blanking it off at the caliper would do the trick.

Cheers,

Pikey.

There are two separate hydraulic circuits actuating three pistons.
The middle piston is controlled by the left lever and the outer two are controlled by the right lever.
If you look to the right of the ignition lock you will see a window for checking the combi-brake hydraulic fluid level.
When the left lever is pulled it actuates both the cable rear and the front hydraulic, rear first then the front.
You are correct, it does have a mechanical linkage.

When I started riding my PCX scooters and left hand brakes and the combi system were all new to me so I only used the left lever for a while to get familiar with what braking effort it had and how the lever "felt".
I then started adding some right lever front and found that when using both brakes together the required lever force on the two levers is somewhat uneven.
I suspect what has happened in your case is that you have pulled the right lever too hard.
Also for someone coming from regular bikes, the left hand lever force feels competely different to using a clutch so muscle memory comes into play, a bit like if you use your left foot on the brake in an auto car if you have learned and are used to manual cars.

As for total braking effort available from the PCX, there's more than enough, I would say far too much, so I don't think going without one piston would be a problem.

Apart from with UK insurance companies who would deem it to have invalidated your insurance if they found out.

looks like the start of a new bromance

I have the linked braking system on my Deau, so when I got the PCX I partly knew what was what with the combi system. As the PCX is considerably lighter, I find I now use a lot more of the left lever to brake with just a little of right (front) when coming to a stop. As others have said the braking pull required on the levers is uneven,(very uneven) but the system is effective once you get used to it.

Glad you're OK Scottish, do you have any pics of your bike love to see the battle scars

here she is, in all her battered glory!...would probably look even worse if I cleaned it once in a while

That looks expensive. Maybe it might make sense to get a complete set of new panels ( I wonder if the UK will be able to get the red ones), the cost of a complete set isn't as bad as you might expect, but the exhaust will cost. If you have somewhere to store them then maybe you could just fix the ones that need it and keep the others for use later - you seem to get a lot of bad luck

Thanks for the pics.
I know you can get new panels from ebay for about 250 inc posting
dunno how much custom taxes you pay

Whoa, all that rust!

I guess the salt over there must just EAT your bike away. Mine still looks new...