djcat wrote:Ignoring stone throwing, crucifying members of this forum, I just wanted to add that the world of counter steering was opened to me by a Police rider during a Met Police bike safe day. It made a world of difference to me, I am more confident in corners, safer at slow filtering speeds and I DO use it either on my heavy beast XL1000 Varadero or on the little PCX (and I used it on every single bike I ever rode). The dynamics of steering are the same no matter what size your bike is - I can use it even on my bicycle. If you try to avoid that child that just jumped out between those two cars parked and you try this by shifting weights, you will be too slow and either hit it or hit the deck.
Having said that, the first and foremost rule when riding/driving is that you should always be able to stop in the distance that you can see! That means that your speed needs to be reasonable for the circumstances at hand (so if you may not be able to stop for that child stepping out from between parked cars, you are too fast in the first place!). That also means backing off before you enter that corner, especially if you can't see the exit/around it. Practice your braking, there are plenty of videos on youtube about how to stop safely.
And gone I am before I get hit by any stones from the Highlands...
I have to agree. I started this topic and I've only been riding a short time and what I learned in the Motorcycle Safety Course regarding counter steering really gave me more confidence and , to me, just felt right. I realize, after riding a while, your brain automatically takes over. The example of riding a bike when you're a kid is an excellent example. After a while you just "get it". I just wish it wasn't so damn hot here (over 100F every day). Wearing a helmet is like putting your head in a microwave oven.
Re: Riding Tips
Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:31 am
by Hyadum
From my experience I can share 2 things I've learned, that I believe apply in any country:
1. Don't ride a motorcycle/scooter if you can't or have never tried ride a bycicle before.
2. Don't go out in traffic on a 2 wheeler if you never drove in a car before (unless you were born on the streets or something)
I know it might sound extreme, but it could save your life.
Re: Riding Tips
Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:49 am
by gn2
Spot on Taz, the whole countersteering thing is a load of bollocks and a misnomer.
You make the required inputs to make the thing go where you want, no need for conscious thought.
Re: Riding Tips
Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:58 am
by Taz
Hyadum wrote:From my experience I can share 2 things I've learned, that I believe apply in any country:
1. Don't ride a motorcycle/scooter if you can't or have never tried ride a bycicle before.
2. Don't go out in traffic on a 2 wheeler if you never drove in a car before (unless you were born on the streets or something)
I know it might sound extreme, but it could save your life.
I failed (2) then as only had motorbikes for 4 years before I could afford my 1st car. I would say make all car drivers spend some time on a bike. Would make them better drivers.
Re: Riding Tips
Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 1:55 am
by former50cc
Taz wrote: I would say make all car drivers spend some time on a bike. Would make them better drivers.
Damn right.
I admit that riding 2 wheels has made me a better cage driver. Riding on 2 wheels, be it bicycle - scooter - or clutch lever motorcycle, is guaranteed to train a person to drive a car in a safer manner.
Re: Riding Tips
Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 3:03 am
by khaosaming
Taz wrote:
Hyadum wrote:From my experience I can share 2 things I've learned, that I believe apply in any country:
2. Don't go out in traffic on a 2 wheeler if you never drove in a car before (unless you were born on the streets or something)
I failed (2)... I would say make all car drivers spend some time on a bike. Would make them better drivers.
-----------
I have to agree with Taz. He's spot-on. A cage driver who is also a scooterist or biker has probably the right attitude towards two-wheelers and generally understands better how two-wheelers behave. He is also more prone to turn his head and observe what's happening around him.
I have to disagree with Hyadum on #2. There's no need to be a cager before entering the kingdom of two-wheelers. The argument is almost absurd. In most parts of the world people start on a two-wheeler, because they are only allowed to drive a car at a certain age.
I started on small motorcycles and scooters, then moved on to bigger ones. I've only driven a car three times in my life.
Re: Riding Tips
Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 7:22 am
by Hyadum
As a general experience, this is true and it should be. But as far as "security" goes, it's best to learn how to drive in a car, because if you get into an accident, you'll probably just get a good scare (at normal city speeds). On a 2 wheeler, even at 30km/h you can fly 3 meters off just be getting pushed.
Re: Riding Tips
Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 7:50 am
by khaosaming
Hyadum wrote:...as far as "security" goes, it's best to learn how to drive in a car, because if you get into an accident, you'll probably just get a good scare...
--------------
What you learn by driving a cage won't be of much help when you ultimately get on a scooter. Security is a malady of our times. Just take the normal precautions (wear gloves, boots, scratch resistant pants and jacket with a good helmet), and off you go. Most people die at home.
The opposite is true: better learn to ride a small capacity scooter first and then move on to something bigger.
Re: Riding Tips
Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 9:20 am
by GeezyRider
khaosaming wrote:The opposite is true: better learn to ride a small capacity scooter first and then move on to something bigger.
This is the path I have chosen. Although an avid bicyclist all my life, I rarely rode my bicycle in traffic at 55 mph. After the MSF course, I decided to get my feet wet on the PCX and then move to a motorcycle. Based on riding the PCX for a while now I am leaning toward staying with it or possibly moving up to a more highway capable scooter.
Re: Riding Tips
Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:42 am
by dasshreddar
countersteering if you can ride a bicycle more than 12 miles per hour you dont even need to think about it, it just comes natural
when learning to ride a bicycle, I dont remember anyone teaching me about countersteering
and when learning to ride a motorized two wheeler for the first time take the MSF course or start on something small,
even if your an adult on a 50cc scooter , not a 600cc R6
Re: Riding Tips
Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 12:32 pm
by djcat
I am very happy I only started to ride two wheelers when I was nearly 30, before that age I drove my cars like a twat as I was somewhat ignorant about advanced observation skills - biking made me a better driver and more patient in general... I don't know if I would would want my kids to ride bikes when they grow up, but I find it difficult to argue with them as they obviously see my bikes in the garage....
Re: Riding Tips
Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:28 am
by Hyadum
This is exactly what I mean. It's better to learn how to drive a bicycle, then a scooter, then a motorcycle and then a car, if you are alone on the street, or the other participants have the best behavior, and they leave you alone and don't try to push you away or take your priority on the lane. But this doesn't happen in 90% of the world, and this is why it's better to drive a car first: so you get used to the traffic and the assholes without breaking a leg.
Re: Riding Tips
Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:02 am
by khaosaming
Funny how people find posts having content to their own liking and interprete those messages accordingly. I understood he said he used to be a twat. Now, at a mature age, he's calmed down, is considerate and doesn't think that traffic is a fightground with big egoes any more.
Re: Riding Tips
Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 12:01 am
by WhiteNoise
Ah yes, maturity Sometimes, I wish I could turn back the hands of time (Where is Cher when you need her?) Growing up...bah...happens too fast! Am I off topic here? It's late scuzi,... driving off to sleep now zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
(just playing round folks) Goodnight
Re: Riding Tips
Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 1:15 am
by Taz
Goodnight and dream of your next scooter ride!
Re: Riding Tips
Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:11 pm
by ScooterKim
Riding Tips... Good Subject! I think the best thing to do is to take the motorcycle safety course. they teach all the subjects we talked about here: counter steering, looking far down the road, not right in front of us, turns, curves, etc. I liked Whitenoise's reply and You Tube video on how to pick up a scooter. They did not teach you that in the safety course and should have. Unless you dropped your bike and learned the hard way. ScooterKim
Re: Riding Tips
Posted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 12:16 pm
by WhiteNoise
Oh what the heck! A video on...."OhNo! counter-steering!!" Really WN? This again??!!
**Just a Note: please refrain from gritting teeth as dentist is Always ready and willing to check out yer pearly whites! $ $
Lucky peeps! Later, I'm going to post a video using a different technique to lift a fallen bike: "Damn, I dropped it! Part II" (please, consider the first one as Part I). That first video earlier in this thread was using the handlebar right grip. This next one is using primarily your butt and legs. I do Not provide popcorn
Re: Riding Tips
Posted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 2:24 pm
by ScooterKim
actually, the You Tube was good... short, sweet, and to the pt. and, gave a good suggestion if you are counter steering too much (countering the counter steering), to bring it back in.
ok, ready for Help I've fallen and I can't get up, WN.
Re: Riding Tips
Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 12:07 am
by WhiteNoise
Gosh oh gee, I intended on posting this "Damn! I dropped it" part II video awhile back. Plum Forgot. Pardon moi. This one is an alternative method for "picking up" yer bike.
(The other method, "Oops! You dropped your scoot!" video can be found on pg. 1 of this thread).
Which method is easier? The one that Works for you (hopefully). Bad back? Knees? Neck? Anything? STOP!! Try this instead: (but ladies take caution) Lay on the ground face up next to your bike and wait for next passerbyer to help
Re: Riding Tips
Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 3:06 am
by Fizzy Rascal
Taz wrote:How do you ride without countersteering? Isnt that why as a kid it takes 1/2 hour or so to learn to ride a bicycle till the countersteering sinks into the cerebellum. Weight shifting is for keeping the bike more upright in corners or for leaning into a crosswind. I think you will find even to keep a bike going straight your cerebellum is doing minute countersteering corrections all the time based on bumps, wind, road camber etc.
This ^
It's a 'subconscious' thing . . . If I start thinking too much about 'counter-steering', I know I'd mess up.
After the MSF course, I decided to get my feet wet on the PCX and then move to a motorcycle. Based on riding the PCX for a while now I am leaning toward staying with it or possibly moving up to a more highway capable scooter.
if you can ride a bicycle more than 12 miles per hour you dont even need to think about it, it just comes natural 
Sometimes, I wish I could turn back the hands of time (Where is Cher when you need her?) 
$