Maddiedog's 170cc PCX

Drivetrain upgrades, engine upgrades, or any other mods to gain speed or acceleration.

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Pcxdemon
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Re: Maddiedog's 170cc PCX

Post by Pcxdemon »

maddiedog wrote:Update time!

I have the kit in, and the bike hauls ass! I put about a mile on it, and unintentionally did a wheelie pulling out of the driveway. :D


Some notes:

- I took pics of the ENTIRE process, and will write a comprehensive how-to very soon (two howtos, first how to completely dismantle a PCX, including steps for each panel, and a 2nd for how to install a big bore kit). The instructions with the kit are not straightforward and in Japanese, so a lot of the process was trial and error. Regardless, the process is fairly straightforward, and only has a few difficult parts. I feel confident anyone with a garage and some patience can do it, and even will include an exact list of the tools you'll need to do the job.

- The camshaft was slightly difficult to get out, but IMPOSSIBLE to transfer the idle lobe over to the new cam. The old cam was put back in. You NEED a bearing press for that part, and I don't have one.

- The injector was trivial to install, and was installed along with the kit.

- I did not pull my valves and lap them. I don't have time for that, or a clamp to remove the valve springs with. It goes without saying that I did not replace the springs either. I will see huge improvements from the kit alone, based on my experience so far.

- I did check the valve clearances, and they're in spec after over 6000 miles without checking.

- The gear up kit and that howto is next -- I did not get around to it yet, I ran short on time. I started, but the clutch is way overtightened from the factory, and even my impact drill could not remove it.

I'm going motocamping with Maddie and the PCX this upcoming weekend, so it'll get a lot of wear and breaking in then. Anticipate another update after then! :D
I am running Yuminashi cam without decompression and its totally fine so if you're not anal just whack it in without..It does make the difference...Im excited that im not the only one anymore having all the fun.. :D
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Re: Maddiedog's 170cc PCX

Post by Mel46 »

Sorry I couldn't come over yesterday. I have been really feeling under the weather for the last week or so, so yesterday was a day of rest for me. The only thing I could think of that would make me feel so worn out was that I must have gotten out of sync with my leukemia meds. I feel a bit better today though. Hopefully we will be able to Come over some time next weekend to see your hot rod. :-)
Currently own:
Red 2013 Honda PCX150

Givi tall windshield & tailbox - Lots of extra lights
Custom seat from Thailand - Bad Boy Airhorn
Takegawa Lowering Shocks - Michelin City Grip Tires
Headlight assy upgraded to LEDs w/HS5 main bulbs
NCY variator, drive face, and rollers
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Re: Maddiedog's 170cc PCX

Post by Slickvic »

maddiedog wrote:Update time!

I'm going motocamping with Maddie and the PCX this upcoming weekend, so it'll get a lot of wear and breaking in then. Anticipate another update after then! :D
Thanx for the update. Looking forward to the next one.
Previous - 1986 Honda Elite 250, 2007 Ninja 500r, 2013 Honda PCX-150
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Re: Maddiedog's 170cc PCX

Post by maddiedog »

Post-camping trip update...

I really need to put that cam in. I feel like the bore kit isn't doing as much as it should, it feels like it's choking. A better cam = more airflow = more boom = more power, so I think that will make a huge difference. I'll do basic performance tests before and after to get metrics to compare the worth of the cam. The trip put about 600 miles on the new top end. I can comfortably cruise at 60-63 now, with a max around 70mph. The max is strained though, so I really only gained 5mph tops. The speedometer reads a bit low now too -- the final gearing change makes it read about 5mph lower than it should. My riding buddy that went on the trip with me on his Bandit 1250 said that I kept with him MUCH better uphills than I did before. I noticed that as the main improvement with the kit -- I can accelerate from 45 to 55 up steep inclines, whereas before the bike would just bog down. I have WAY more power out of corners too. I was passing much larger bikes on the inside when the road was tight, simply because I could put it in harder and pull out quicker.

I tracked my MPG for two of the seven fillups over the trip, using a GPS instead of the speedometer since the speedo is now off. The bike got 73mpg highway, cruising for a whole tank at 55-60mph. Not great, but not bad -- certainly better than most bikes. Riding the PCX hard in the mountain twisties, I got slightly better mpg at around 83mpg. I attribute that to spending way less time near redline. In either case, I was loaded with at least 50lbs extra of dog and gear, which didn't help the figures. I think that, once the kit is broken in, I will probably average around 80-85mpg for typical mixed city/highway driving.

I think I can do the cam and get the idle lobe on the new cam. We'll see though. I need to do the how-to first. ;) I'm taking two classes, have a four-month old, and working full time, so it might take a bit. Life's busy but it's fun! :lol:


Some quick pics from this weekend:

Bike loaded up. I have my armor draped over the back, and got an adventure-style helmet recently. You can just see the LED foglights on the front forks, they are each twice as bright as the headlights and INVALUABLE on mountain roads at night. We're stopped at Bojangles "fried chicken" (in quotes because I'm not sure if it qualifies as food) for lunch.
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Maddie patiently awaiting a piece of chicken. I didn't want her to get the poops, so I gave her the biscuit that came with the meal instead. She LOVES biscuits anyways.
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Stopped at a gas station because IT STARTED TO FRIGGIN HAIL ON US. Little bits of hail the size of marbles fell for about 10 minutes, then it was clear. We had freaky weather the whole trip, it was about 25 degrees (F) colder than it usually is this time of year. The dude in the shot is my friend Freeman.
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Stopped at the campsite, dude in pic is Freeman again. I don't think there's any photographic proof I rode actually...
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And the hammock tent set up at the site. We didn't even end up using the tents -- it got down to 39F / just over 0C that night. Since my gear is good down to 50 degrees at worse, we ended up crashing on the floor of the lodge in the background of the previous picture. At least it was less cold that way. :lol:
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Currently ride: Nothing right now - mostly mountain biking with my boys until they're old enough to ride :lol:
Previously rides: 2011 Honda PCX 125, 2005 V-Strom DL650, 1974 Vespa Ciao, 2011 Honda PCX 170 (tons of mods - takegawa 170cc big bore kit, gears, etc), 1996 Honda Nighthawk 250, 1987 Honda Spree, 2000 KTM 125SX, 2003 Honda Silverwing, 2007 Genuine Buddy 125, 1998 Honda PC800, 2008 Buddy 125 (white), 2008 Buddy 125 (red), 2001 Honda Reflex, 1987 Honda Elite, 1988 Honda Spree, 2007 Yamaha Vino, 2007 Honda Metro, 2x 125cc pure-chinesium dirt bikes
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Re: Maddiedog's 170cc PCX

Post by Pcxdemon »

aah the joys of fine tuning now... :lol: Everything else you do from now on will make it quicker and quicker. Decent exhaust is what you could do with next, camshaft...you dont need to swap decompression device from stock cam to Takegawa. Its there mainly to assist at starting up via throttle idle-stop models which US doesnt have anyway. Im not using it on mine either with yuminashi cam and this kit has a way higher compression than Takegawa does and it still starts fine without it. Also you wont need to take the head off for the cam change,although if you could pull the motor clear from the frame it would make the job that much easier.
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Re: Maddiedog's 170cc PCX

Post by Alibally »

Does it not recommend on the website the battery is upgraded then the cam is fitted?
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Re: Maddiedog's 170cc PCX

Post by Pcxdemon »

Alibally wrote:Does it not recommend on the website the battery is upgraded then the cam is fitted?
With Yuminashi kit,yes it does,because cam has no decomp feature and compression is quite high.
Although what battery they recommended was what i already had fitted stock from Honda. So it must be that Thailand bikes had weaker versions of Yuasa batteries fitted ytz5s i think, where Australia has ytz7s and thats whats recommended by Yuminashi..
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Re: Maddiedog's 170cc PCX

Post by maddiedog »

Alibally wrote:Does it not recommend on the website the battery is upgraded then the cam is fitted?
It does, but I didn't even bother to look into it, the stock starter and battery work more than well enough. It starts just as fast as it did before. I may have to look into if after I add the cam, not sure yet, but I'm hoping I won't.

I'm looking into gearing upgrades, the PCX has way more power than I need with the current gearing. I could see it easily hitting 80mph if I had gearing for it, at the peak power output at a bit below the redline is still more than sufficient, the engine is hardly under load. It pulls stupid fast to 60mph as well. I've been reading this thread some: http://www.hondapcx.org/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1981 and will likely reply there to keep things consistent trying to figure out how to get more speed (I really don't care about acceleration).
Currently ride: Nothing right now - mostly mountain biking with my boys until they're old enough to ride :lol:
Previously rides: 2011 Honda PCX 125, 2005 V-Strom DL650, 1974 Vespa Ciao, 2011 Honda PCX 170 (tons of mods - takegawa 170cc big bore kit, gears, etc), 1996 Honda Nighthawk 250, 1987 Honda Spree, 2000 KTM 125SX, 2003 Honda Silverwing, 2007 Genuine Buddy 125, 1998 Honda PC800, 2008 Buddy 125 (white), 2008 Buddy 125 (red), 2001 Honda Reflex, 1987 Honda Elite, 1988 Honda Spree, 2007 Yamaha Vino, 2007 Honda Metro, 2x 125cc pure-chinesium dirt bikes
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Re: Maddiedog's 170cc PCX

Post by Mel46 »

Well the one thing I can say about is, your bike has one heck of acceleration curve! I was really impressed with the power coming from that little engine...and what a ride! Wow!
Currently own:
Red 2013 Honda PCX150

Givi tall windshield & tailbox - Lots of extra lights
Custom seat from Thailand - Bad Boy Airhorn
Takegawa Lowering Shocks - Michelin City Grip Tires
Headlight assy upgraded to LEDs w/HS5 main bulbs
NCY variator, drive face, and rollers
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Re: Maddiedog's 170cc PCX

Post by Pcxdemon »

Mel46 wrote:Well the one thing I can say about is, your bike has one heck of acceleration curve! I was really impressed with the power coming from that little engine...and what a ride! Wow!
Its what ive been saying from day one! :lol: :lol: :lol: and he still has no cam or exhaust installed,valve springs,throttle body....

Yuminashi is much much quicker than that basic Takegawa set up Maddiedog has. You can make the Pcx very quick little scooter,quicker than almost any 300cc and some above that....

;) :) :D :lol: :ugeek:
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Re: Maddiedog's 170cc PCX

Post by Slickvic »

Pcxdemon wrote:
Mel46 wrote:Well the one thing I can say about is, your bike has one heck of acceleration curve! I was really impressed with the power coming from that little engine...and what a ride! Wow!
Its what ive been saying from day one! :lol: :lol: :lol: and he still has no cam or exhaust installed,valve springs,throttle body....

Yuminashi is much much quicker than that basic Takegawa set up Maddiedog has. You can make the Pcx very quick little scooter,quicker than almost any 300cc and some above that....

;) :) :D :lol: :ugeek:
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Re: Maddiedog's 170cc PCX

Post by maddiedog »

I still haven't dropped the cam in yet.

I did go on an all-day ride Sunday though, and I can say the new kit is more or less broken in. I travelled over 250 miles and only filled up twice, so my gas mileage has improved as well.

The PCX at the moment, with the Kitaco counter gear AND the Yuminashi final gear tops out at about 72-73mph. It's not hitting the limiter yet though, so I have a feeling the cam will get me even more power. The PCX is rock-solid and stable at that speed. I cruised comfortably down the interstate for about an hour at 65, it's nice to actually keep up with traffic.

My PCX still bogs down a bit climbing HUGE mountains -- we're talking miles on end of 30% grade; roads that semi trucks just won't go on because they can't. I hit about 35-40 uphill and can't go faster. That's ok though -- 40 up that kind of a hill is still hauling ass. Even my Nighthawk 250 struggled up the huge hills like that; I would be just pushing 55-60mph in 3rd or 4th gear with the engine screaming like a banshee.

Would I do the big bore kit again? It's still hard to say at this point. I friggin LOVE my PCX and am glad I learned so much doing it. I've spent a bit under $1000 on performance parts to get it to where it is. I could have kept the Nighthawk for that, but then I'd have to pay tax on it as well and worry about maintenance (my insurance is the minimum required and doesn't give me any coverage if stolen or if I wreck it -- it's $100 per year for as many bikes as I want under a certain CC range or weight).

I think a bigger bike is in my future, I just don't know how far out yet. The PCX definitely still does the job though, I could have it as my only bike and still make do just fine. :D
Currently ride: Nothing right now - mostly mountain biking with my boys until they're old enough to ride :lol:
Previously rides: 2011 Honda PCX 125, 2005 V-Strom DL650, 1974 Vespa Ciao, 2011 Honda PCX 170 (tons of mods - takegawa 170cc big bore kit, gears, etc), 1996 Honda Nighthawk 250, 1987 Honda Spree, 2000 KTM 125SX, 2003 Honda Silverwing, 2007 Genuine Buddy 125, 1998 Honda PC800, 2008 Buddy 125 (white), 2008 Buddy 125 (red), 2001 Honda Reflex, 1987 Honda Elite, 1988 Honda Spree, 2007 Yamaha Vino, 2007 Honda Metro, 2x 125cc pure-chinesium dirt bikes
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Re: Maddiedog's 170cc PCX

Post by maddiedog »

I've been procrastinating on the big bore kit how-to, but I got around to doing some work on it tonight... A bit of a preview of the upcoming how-to:
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Currently ride: Nothing right now - mostly mountain biking with my boys until they're old enough to ride :lol:
Previously rides: 2011 Honda PCX 125, 2005 V-Strom DL650, 1974 Vespa Ciao, 2011 Honda PCX 170 (tons of mods - takegawa 170cc big bore kit, gears, etc), 1996 Honda Nighthawk 250, 1987 Honda Spree, 2000 KTM 125SX, 2003 Honda Silverwing, 2007 Genuine Buddy 125, 1998 Honda PC800, 2008 Buddy 125 (white), 2008 Buddy 125 (red), 2001 Honda Reflex, 1987 Honda Elite, 1988 Honda Spree, 2007 Yamaha Vino, 2007 Honda Metro, 2x 125cc pure-chinesium dirt bikes
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Re: Maddiedog's 170cc PCX

Post by Mgalutia88 »

So are you running the fuel controller maddiedog? It makes a difference too
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Re: Maddiedog's 170cc PCX

Post by Urbanfreestyle »

What CC was the bike when you got it?
Honda PCX 125 ESP (Black)
Power:11.7 hp @8500 rpm, Torque:12Nm @5000rpm
Mods: LED sidelights, Yoshimura Exhaust

DEAD: 2013 Piaggio Typhoon 4 stroke 125cc (Black)
Power:9.65 HP @8500 rpm, Torque:8.2Nm @7500 rpm
Mods: Malossi Red foam filter, Hex LED Sidelights, Xenon headlights, USB charging port
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Re: Maddiedog's 170cc PCX

Post by maddiedog »

Mgalutia88 wrote:So are you running the fuel controller maddiedog? It makes a difference too
Negative. I did get a larger injector though.

Urbanfreestyle wrote:What CC was the bike when you got it?
125cc -- it's a 2011 MK I PCX (from before the eSP days)
Currently ride: Nothing right now - mostly mountain biking with my boys until they're old enough to ride :lol:
Previously rides: 2011 Honda PCX 125, 2005 V-Strom DL650, 1974 Vespa Ciao, 2011 Honda PCX 170 (tons of mods - takegawa 170cc big bore kit, gears, etc), 1996 Honda Nighthawk 250, 1987 Honda Spree, 2000 KTM 125SX, 2003 Honda Silverwing, 2007 Genuine Buddy 125, 1998 Honda PC800, 2008 Buddy 125 (white), 2008 Buddy 125 (red), 2001 Honda Reflex, 1987 Honda Elite, 1988 Honda Spree, 2007 Yamaha Vino, 2007 Honda Metro, 2x 125cc pure-chinesium dirt bikes
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Re: Maddiedog's 170cc PCX

Post by gia »

What brings the madmax injector. I have only installed the 170cc from Rzracing with the stock injector. It's ride fine with more power and going at once to 69 mph.
What schould i win with changing the injector?
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PCX170 2013
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Re: Maddiedog's 170cc PCX

Post by Reaper »

gia wrote:What brings the madmax injector. I have only installed the 170cc from Rzracing with the stock injector. It's ride fine with more power and going at once to 69 mph.
What schould i win with changing the injector?
Pcx125 esp-2013
If your stock injector is not maxing out (inj duty cycle less than 90% at full load), you can keep using it. But, in theory, the engine capacity is 36% more now, so you need about 36% more fuel.
Your EFI system is now fighting to keep the same AFR, in other words ECU tells to injector to throw more fuel in the engine, and, the injector could me maxed out.

If your stock injector is maxing out now (inj duty cycle is about 100%), this is the straight way to destroy the engine, running extremely lean.

You can install the bigger injector with or without any income in power, imho. You have to check the actual AFR measurings at full load first, and check the inj duty cycle percentage.

You can let the engine run richer and catch about 20% more horsepower, using a bigger injector, Kitaco I-map ECU etc..
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Re: Maddiedog's 170cc PCX

Post by Valiant »

Reaper wrote: You can let the engine run richer and catch about 20% more horsepower, using a bigger injector, Kitaco I-map ECU etc..
I assume this only applies to those with the big bore kits installed? I purchased a performance camshaft, which should let me put more air into the mix, even at the same 153cc capacity. So would a larger injector benefit those without the bore kit?

I also find it a bit strange that a bigger injector can be so critical, and yet they don't include that with the kit(though to be fair, they don't include the FI Con2 either).

Still, just musing about it. If you're running a richer mix, you'd essentially burn more gas for more power, meaning lower mpg. I'm thinking a fully upgraded transmission without messing with the engine lets you gain the speed without much of a sacrifice in fuel efficiency, whereas this big bore setup makes it a moot point in purchasing a scooter if you're interested in mileage at all.
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Re: Maddiedog's 170cc PCX

Post by gia »

Reaper wrote:
If your stock injector is not maxing out (inj duty cycle less than 90% at full load), you can keep using it. But, in theory, the engine capacity is 36% more now, so you need about 36% more fuel.
Your EFI system is now fighting to keep the same AFR, in other words ECU tells to injector to throw more fuel in the engine, and, the injector could me maxed out.

If your stock injector is maxing out now (inj duty cycle is about 100%), this is the straight way to destroy the engine, running extremely lean.

You can install the bigger injector with or without any income in power, imho. You have to check the actual AFR measurings at full load first, and check the inj duty cycle percentage.

You can let the engine run richer and catch about 20% more horsepower, using a bigger injector, Kitaco I-map ECU etc..
Ok, I try it with the bigger injector. I'am gonna look by the Honda-dealer for a 16450-KPP-T01 injector.
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