Variators for increased speed,

mikewasp · Post by **mikewasp** » Wed Apr 25, 2012 6:18 am

If you would like to pay for the testing you want I would be happy to do it. As I said before almost $550 for a V-Box is way outside my reach to quantify something I already know. Since you see to think otherwise why don't you pay for some tests to prove YOUR point.

This has played out on the "other" forum and you can have your opinion and my 30 customers can silently have theirs. What I want to know is not what you thinks as that, as I said, has already bored everyone to death on the "other" forum and now you seem set to repeat yourself here.

What I am interested in is why the gentleman from NY thinks they are "garbage" as they are at least in the experience of my 30 customers not. Then he replaces and after market variator with another aftermarket variator with different weights but say it works. It was up to him but he could have changed the weights in the "garbage" to get the same as he has now or better but chose not to. I would have sent him a PM and asked but I need a minimum of posts to do that. I could send 10 posts on how to take the lump out of the seat but chose to be upfront right-away.

Am I the self appointed defender of said aftermarket variator I suppose so because I wouldn't import them if I didn't think they worked. My customers are told that if they don't like it I will buy it back within the first 30 days. So far only one and I subsequently sold it used to another person who has not returned it.

What I have learned from Thai forums is that not everyone is who they appear so anyone classing some thing simply as garbage and then claiming he replaced it with something else rings alarm bells. I hope this is not the case.

As for testing they are all tested before offer for sale that is why there is not yet a unit for the 150.

gn2 · Post by **gn2** » Wed Apr 25, 2012 6:48 am

mikewasp wrote:This has played out on the "other" forum and you can have your opinion and my 30 customers can silently have theirs. What I want to know is not what you thinks as that, as I said, has already bored everyone to death on the "other" forum and now you seem set to repeat yourself here.

So I'm repeating myself am I?
Just exactly what are you doing?
As for the topic being boring (it is) can I point out that I didn't start this discussion...?

mikewasp wrote:Am I the self appointed defender of said aftermarket variator I suppose so because I wouldn't import them if I didn't think they worked. My customers are told that if they don't like it I will buy it back within the first 30 days. So far only one and I subsequently sold it used to another person who has not returned it.

You think they work but have no conclusive proof.
Can't say fairer than a money back guarantee then.

mikewasp wrote:What I have learned from Thai forums is that not everyone is who they appear so anyone classing some thing simply as garbage and then claiming he replaced it with something else rings alarm bells.

Sounds reasonable enough.

mikewasp wrote:As for testing they are all tested before offer for sale that is why there is not yet a unit for the 150.

Quality control testing or performance testing...?

You can call me boring and attempt to diss me all you like, I simply don't care.
The benefits (if indeed there are any) against the cost mean that I will never buy an aftermarket variator for my PCX.

mikewasp · Post by **mikewasp** » Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:07 am

gn2 wrote: You can call me boring and attempt to diss me all you like, I simply don't care.
The benefits (if indeed there are any) against the cost mean that I will never buy an aftermarket variator for my PCX.

I suppose on a purely personal level I don't care what you think either. They do work and that I have not written a doctoral thesis on them does not disprove that.
No one said they are cheap but I don't manufacture them.
As for so called dissing you that was not my intention, simply to state that this has been played to death before and my original intend was only to seek information but you touched a nerve I guess.
But I am getting closer to being able to send a PM to the gentleman from NY.

maddiedog · Post by **maddiedog** » Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:02 am

mikewasp wrote:I am one of Maddiedog's "gearheads that sell performance parts"

I don't want you to interpret that as an insult. I say gearhead in the most affectionate manner possible. I think you have some balls to not only sell the parts, but stick by them and defend them.

I understand your argument that the JCosta (and other variators) will actuate the drive face more -- that's exactly the point I was getting at here: http://hondapcx.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=308#p3949. If my theory's correct, PCX riders really won't even need a variator -- just a smaller boss -- to see more mph. It's a valid argument, and makes perfect sense.

The problem with the JCosta variator, and any other performance mod for that matter, is there are no emperical BEFORE AND AFTER videos. All me, GN2, and any other critics are asking for is a video and statistical analysis like the one I did here: http://hondapcx.org/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=154. The installation how-to, performance testing, and statistical analysis associated with it all took less than 4 hours, including uploading it. It cost me nothing, other than time, and 2 zip-ties to secure my camera to my handlebars. Emperical proof like that could boost your sales EASILY. If Corsport had bothered to do that, and actually showed that they gained 5mph, I would already be a proud owner of a JCosta variator.

I mean hell, Corsport can't even post a video of their PCX doing over 60mph -- which hurts the argument even more. I'm not trying to say you're full of shit -- I'm saying that other vendors have been COMPLETELY full of shit on the issue, and that's why, unfortunately, so many people are skeptical to believe you.

I like the way you've argued your point better, and therefore feel you are far more credible of a source than Corsport, but this entire discussion goes nowhere without any solid proof. It just becomes a flame war, as we saw on the other forum.

Alibally · Post by **Alibally** » Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:34 pm

My opinion is the if someone was to spend £xxxx on tuning parts then they are not going to say it makes no difference to the performance. I think it is placebo effect. Tell someone it makes a difference and they will think it does. I have seen boy racer kits on cars that actually make it slower! All the skeptics are asking is for proof these add ons actually work. If the get me to my work 30 seconds sooner than I won't be bothering.

Woolley · Post by **Woolley** » Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:58 pm

maddiedog wrote: This entire discussion goes nowhere without any solid proof. It just becomes a flame war, as we saw on the other forum.

At least we can see how it plays out here, and not have posts deleted so that the only available info on the variator is from the people selling it.

gn2 · Post by **gn2** » Wed Apr 25, 2012 6:54 pm

Alibally wrote:My opinion is the if someone was to spend £xxxx on tuning parts then they are not going to say it makes no difference to the performance.

Hence my signature...

mikewasp · Post by **mikewasp** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:08 am

maddiedog wrote: I don't want you to interpret that as an insult. I say gearhead in the most affectionate manner possible. I think you have some balls to not only sell the parts, but stick by them and defend them.

MD. I took it affectionately:-)

What I don't understand is why everyone says they don't work. They are not the only aftermarket variator and they all work to greater and lesser degrees. I think what got people going on the "other" forum was the quest for higher top speed which we still get here in Thailand OK only 8 or so kph but better than nothing and no one ever promised anymore. The original offering of J Costa kept the top speed more or less stock until after reading the "other" forum where guys wanted 120kph I suggested that 120 was the holy grail and they came up with 116. Maybe I am ingratiating myself and maybe it was simply timing. What is or was happening in the US is a mystery to me. The last one I sold was to a guy on an island here which has a lot of hills and he is very happy with the result.
I maybe the victim of my own enthusiasm as I am the author of the article in motorcycle.in.th which everyone used to quote. Maybe some got fed up with my persistence. But my customers never come back and say they don't do anything. Even my most vocal critic here was fair and said the only reason he stopped using his was for economy reasons but was gracious enough to publish the benefits.
Youtube videos sadly don't prove anything. I could give you a link to one which has a PCX showing 140 kph but the bike is on the stand and not even moving just revving it's little heart out.

The other thing is that variators seem to be the least understood part of the bike. They all have different weights, ramp angles, bushing lengths, some comes with different counter springs etc. even I don't claim to understand it all. It's all a question of keeping the engine working at its best possible power during acceleration and changing ratios at the optimum rate.
But this has all been discussed at length before. Maybe the reason for owning a PCX is not for performance but for frugality which means am preaching to the choir as they say, as performance means burning more fuel which increases the cost of running etc.
I have sold units to T-Max owners, Vespa owners and they are all happy. One T-Max owner put his on a stock bike and was beating a dealer modified scooter in drag races
up and down the road for at least 30 mins. They all came back happy even the mechanic riding the dealers bike was smiling.
Regardless of what anyone thinks when I have customers writing WOW in emails or Incredible in the case of the T-Max owner the produce must be doing something. The company that makes them is successful, they only make two other product, exhausts, in small numbers, and dynomometers. They spend very little on marketing and still make money so something must be right. I can see now why they don't put their dyno results on their website as it wouldn't make any difference to the ludidites.
Still I cannot afford as I said to spend $550 on a V-Box, so well all have to agree to disagree. If I get a returned unit ever again I'll sent it free to gn2 and he can report on the difference it makes.

maddiedog · Post by **maddiedog** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:07 pm

mikewasp wrote:But this has all been discussed at length before. Maybe the reason for owning a PCX is not for performance but for frugality which means am preaching to the choir as they say, as performance means burning more fuel which increases the cost of running etc.

I think this hits the nail on the head for this forum. The entire opinion around the variator, and at this point, performance parts in general, has turned into a general distrust from riders towards the components. It has become more about WHO the parts come from here and their misconduct, rather than whether or not the parts even work.

That said, I've seen the JCosta and other variators elsewhere (other than from the other forum) -- If I see proof that they work from someone reputable, I will be the first one to praise improvement.

Either way, at this point, we're all still just speculating.

mikewasp wrote:If I get a returned unit ever again I'll sent it free to gn2 and he can report on the difference it makes.

That would be so ironic given the entire scenario surrounding this variator. I can't even imagine GN2 running one if he was given one at this point, just out of spite.

Luckily, jasontheparamedic agreed to do a speed / acceleration test, so we might get some conclusive 3rd-party figures on the JCosta soon. I really hope we see some results, or at the very least get some closure.

gn2 · Post by **gn2** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:08 pm

mikewasp wrote:If I get a returned unit ever again I'll sent it free to gn2 and he can report on the difference it makes.

The only difference it would make to me would be to my PayPal account because the first thing I would do with it is list it on eBay.

rich666 · Post by **rich666** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 2:40 am

I'd like to jump in with a new slant on this everlasting discussion.

As I don't own a PCX anymore and don't intend getting one again in the near future I can now say what I have known about for a while.

In the Uk the Honda PCX is NOT classed as a worldwide model - Honda reprogrammed the ECU for the UK Market the speed sensor at the back wheel dictates exactly how fast the PCX can go.
This was to conform to A1 motorbike classifications. My friendly Honda technician/Spanner magician catorgorically told me they restricted the bike to an actual speed of 62.5 mph. The UK PCX can be modified to your hearts content - Variators, chips, belts, etc, etc - BUT it will never go any faster than 62.5mph (Actual) on the roads UNLESS you have the ECU replaced/reprogrammed.

The reasoning behind this very shrewd move is simple business - Honda get a much better rate of Tax on an A1 bike at point of sale which ultimately means more profit

ese12105 · Post by **ese12105** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 3:31 am

Great post rich.

Woolley · Post by **Woolley** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 11:24 am

I'd love to see that listing.

gn2 · Post by **gn2** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:50 pm

Send me a JCosta and I'll post up a link

jasontheparamedic · Post by **jasontheparamedic** » Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:34 pm

I really wanted to do the comparison testing today regarding the J. Costa variator. I took 3 "before" rounds on my digital camera showing how loooooong it takes for me to get to my crappy top speed. After I removed to variator cover (including that difficult screw...thanks you all), I tried to remove the large bolt on the variator. Just one problem. When I try to turn the bolt, everything else turns with it. I watched the how-to video on ClubPCX. I realized the guy had some sort of V-shaped device to apply resistance so he could remove the bolt. I don't know what that tool is called, but I went to Lowe's and Advanced Auto Parts and came up empty handed. I live in an apartment so getting an air powered set is both cost prohibitive and unlikely to fly well with apartment management. Does anybody know what that V-shaped tool is and how I can get it?

gn2 · Post by **gn2** » Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:37 pm

It's a variator holder, it's possible to fabricate your own from a piece of plywood and some bolts or use a ginormous strap wrench.
Some people use an electric impact gun instead, but a holder is better imo.

ese12105 · Post by **ese12105** » Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:37 pm

I've done what gn suggested with the board. Drill out a hole on the center of a piece of plywood so you can get to the nut. Then figure out how far apart the holes in the variator are and drill opposing holes equidistant from the hole you drilled for the nut. Actually measure everything first then drill lol. Don't feel like retyping on my phone lol. Then find some bolts that will fit into the holes on the variator and some nuts to hold them steady. Now you should have a tool to hold your variator and will cost you about two bucks. Let me know if this doesn't make sense and I can find my tool and post a pic of what I built. And at the time I did build this in an apartment with limited tools so it is possible :-)

maddiedog · Post by **maddiedog** » Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:20 pm

Any time I've messed with a variator, I've used an electric impact wrench. I got mine from Home Depot, it's a Ryobi and has always worked well... You can get really cheap ones at Harbor Freight tools though.

jasontheparamedic · Post by **jasontheparamedic** » Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:27 pm

The first of the month is upon us, so the rent has to get paid. Afterwards, I'll find a cheap impact wrench to hopefully get this project done.

maddiedog · Post by **maddiedog** » Mon Apr 30, 2012 8:58 pm

You haven't listed your location --- if you're near Atlanta, GA, you can borrow mine.

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