Polini high speed variator....... crap

[Mon-Eye]

Bought the polini high speed variator rollers put on the pcx125 21 current model and its discraceful. So the bike with the kit fitted was doing 62mph flat out on the rev limiter with it fitted. My standard variator that I modified is good for 73mph and 78mph on the limiter (bike doesn't have power to get to that speed). So I'd advise everyone not to use the polini kit.

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Anyone has any recommendations to better my set up I'm always up for improvements. Running 14.5g rollers and standard rear variator. I am running slightly heavier clutch springs for a more sprightly get away and different clutch basket too

Standard modified variator

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[power-full]

Try using 13 GR dr pully rollers. and you'll see what it's like to ride mine from 20111/ to 145kh. If you stretch, you'll get enough of that... the bad thing is that it only lasts a short time for the cost of the rollers.

[Mon-Eye]

Try using 13 GR dr pully rollers. and you'll see what it's like to ride mine from 20111/ to 145kh. If you stretch, you'll get enough of that... the bad thing is that it only lasts a short time for the cost of the rollers.

I keep looking at the dr pulley sliders. How long do they last ? I keep wondering I'd it's worth machining some from aluminum or stainless to see how they last

[waspmike]

78 mph indicated is pretty good for a standard 125 bike with tuned variator. 75 would also be good. As we don't know your weight or height. I.e. are you small and ride tucked

Did you fit the whole Polini kit?

According to my info the kit in that picture is for a SH125/150. OK they share the same engine but the final gearing will be different as SH has larger wheels.

[Mon-Eye]

78 mph indicated is pretty good for a standard 125 bike with tuned variator. 75 would also be good. As we don't know your weight or height. I.e. are you small and ride tucked

Did you fit the whole Polini kit?

According to my info the kit in that picture is for a SH125/150. OK they share the same engine but the final gearing will be different as SH has larger wheels.

I'm 5'8" 90kg and bikes got a 80cm screen fitted. I've never managed 78 but bike will indicate it on center stand and reved. I ha e hit 73 quite a few times though on the bike on motorways. According to polini site that's the kit for my bike. Comes with 10g rollers which I think is half the issue but I'm not messing Bour as it should just work straight out the box. Really am disappointed with it.

[waspmike]

OK best we got here years ago with 125 using J Costa was 122kph which is 76mph. I assume with no screen.
100kg rider would lose about 3 kph against a 60 or 75 kg rider so make it +/- 74 mph.

Does your Polini have 9 weights or 6? The box in your picture has 8 Stock PCX has 15g weights so 6 x 15 =90g total. 9x 10=90g but 8 x 10 = 80 or 13.3g equivalency.
Usually, kits like Malossi come with a stronger spring to keep the transmission "tight" and need heavier equivalent weights.

For a 6 weight unit with stock spring you need 12.5/13g. So with your 10g ??? Polini Blue spring is +15% so you would need slightly heavier weights than that. If you have 8 weights the maths works out in theory but your experience says not in practice

Sorry I can't give you a definite answer.

[Mon-Eye]

OK best we got here years ago with 125 using J Costa was 122kph which is 76mph. I assume with no screen.
100kg rider would lose about 3 kph against a 60 or 75 kg rider so make it +/- 74 mph.

Does your Polini have 9 weights or 6? The box in your picture has 8 Stock PCX has 15g weights so 6 x 15 =90g total. 9x 10=90g but 8 x 10 = 80 or 13.3g equivalency.
Usually, kits like Malossi come with a stronger spring to keep the transmission "tight" and need heavier equivalent weights.

For a 6 weight unit with stock spring you need 12.5/13g. So with your 10g ??? Polini Blue spring is +15% so you would need slightly heavier weights than that. If you have 8 weights the maths works out in theory but your experience says not in practice

Sorry I can't give you a definite answer.

The polini kit came with 6 10g weights. The standard weights where 18.5g that came with the bike but I'm using 14g roller weights with the modded stock variator. So would you say the new polini vatiator should have 18g roler weights ? I tried looking today and couldn't find polini weights that weight 14 or 15

So using your previous testing I'm probably about on the max possible then now without upping the power. Im trying the heavier torque spring on the rear variator and does seam to me giving me a little more mid speed push

[Mon-Eye]

OK best we got here years ago with 125 using J Costa was 122kph which is 76mph. I assume with no screen.
100kg rider would lose about 3 kph against a 60 or 75 kg rider so make it +/- 74 mph.

Does your Polini have 9 weights or 6? The box in your picture has 8 Stock PCX has 15g weights so 6 x 15 =90g total. 9x 10=90g but 8 x 10 = 80 or 13.3g equivalency.
Usually, kits like Malossi come with a stronger spring to keep the transmission "tight" and need heavier equivalent weights.

For a 6 weight unit with stock spring you need 12.5/13g. So with your 10g ??? Polini Blue spring is +15% so you would need slightly heavier weights than that. If you have 8 weights the maths works out in theory but your experience says not in practice

Sorry I can't give you a definite answer.

That's the best explanation I've heard off calculating the variator effects too fella so thanks for the maths on that too. Makes total sense. So really if the stock variator on stock set up is 18g and the one I was running with my modified standard variator (both on stock spring) with 15g. The polini needs to be at least 15g but with stronger spring wants to be at least 18g rollers. Would explain why it was just hitting the limiter at 62mph.

Problem now is getting rollers that heavy in the polini size.

I've also noticed the variator slide shaft the goes over the crank shaft inside the variator is 1.5mm exactly (give or take a couple off hundredth) smaller than the standard honda shaft too. I was assuming differences on the variator compensate for that though

[waspmike]

If you have a dig for Dr. Pulley they recommend their weights be 15-20% lighter than stock. Of course, you can go more. If you add a stronger torque/contra spring then you could go up a bit.

This for reference only: As it is a 150.

.

Are you using the Polinin blue spring? They say 15% but I din't know it that is heavier or lighter.
Until I found this

The compression spring is for a better calibration of the transmission. The stiffer spring helps the spring to transmit the power of the scooter to the wheel. In this way the variator too can give the best power.

https://www.polini.com/en/?faqs=what-is ... spring-for

A Polini 9 weight unit has 9.2g weights. https://www.partsforscooters.com/146-69 ... or-Kit-PCX
So 9 x 9.2 = 82.8g.
Assuming the blue spring is the same then 82.8/6=13.8 or 14. 13 if you can't find 14

I'm just using logic. My bike is 110cc hogged out to 120 it runs out of puff at 105 kph. My contra spring (as I live in hills) is described as 1500 which I assume to be "+ rpm)
My other one is 110 used for mountain goat tracks and is currently using 15g down from 18 but I have lowered the final drive for hills. No optional springs available for that.

[Conelite]

Going to 8 weights as opposed to 6 like the stock Variator, you will have to go for non- OEM size weights.
If you run 10g weights that's: 80G total
If stock is 14g that is: 84g total in 6 weights...

If that Contra spring is stiffer than stock, you need to go even heavier than stock. Chances are you are not getting full belt travel. RUn stock contra spring and see if you get better top speed.

[Mon-Eye]

So stock the pcx had 18.5g rollers. I've been running 14.5f rollers. So the 10g rollers that came with the kit are way way to light especially with a heavier spring fitted from the kit too then. So should I try and find some heavier rollers to try in the polini variator. I've found some 19mm x 17mm polini 15g rollers so should I try them or will they not be light enough now I have the heavier spring fitted up. Just really annoying that I'm having to try and find rollers now to try and get the kit to work. Polini arent replying to my emails so I'm trying to sort a return out for it now unless I can get it working

[Conelite]

I run 10.25G Dr Pulley sliders in my NCY Variator. (61.5G total)

I would say run the stock contra Spring and run the 10G rollers in the Polini. If you get your top speed back, but you lose acceleration what you can start to do is lighten 4 roller weights at a time. 0.5g from 4 rollers. until you regain good Acceleration.

Even with my 10.25g weights I'm still getting full belt travel. 75+mph but still accelerates like a bat out of hell and rpms hover around 8k rpms from 10mph up.

[Mon-Eye]

I run 10.25G Dr Pulley sliders in my NCY Variator. (61.5G total)

I would say run the stock contra Spring and run the 10G rollers in the Polini. If you get your top speed back, but you lose acceleration what you can start to do is lighten 4 roller weights at a time. 0.5g from 4 rollers. until you regain good Acceleration.

Even with my 10.25g weights I'm still getting full belt travel. 75+mph but still accelerates like a bat out of hell and rpms hover around 8k rpms from 10mph up.

Surly though the polini kit should just work out the box and be fully optimised for the best top speed capable with the power the pcx has and the rollers and contra spring being optimised to keep the engine spinning around the 6.5k ish rpm Mark.

I could have just bought the contra spring for £15 and then experimented with the roller weights my self and at my cost. Up to now I'm £130 out off pocket and no further. I'm also assuming (try never to assume anything especially after marriage) that the polini variator face is different angle or shape but can't se how as it uses the other half off the standard variator. So I am assuming the polini variator is the same angle and shape as the honda and just allows the rollers to push out further too. Polini variator is also better made than the honda unit mind.

My setup is 14.5g weights and the honda variators machined so the rollers can push out further giving me the higher speeds I've been getting. Now I did run 12g rollers but felt it was just reving and not giving me much more performance so went back to the 14.5g rollers. Used this set up for 2 years and 15k miles.

So if I then fit a heavier contra spring it has the same affect as using lighter rollers as takes more effort for the rear variator to be separated. So heavier rollers are then required to compensate for this or more rpms. I'm sure I have this right but please correct me if I'm wrong. The advantage off a stronger contra spring is it will keep the belt tighter if used with heavier rollers so will give more direct response and more top end marginally ?

I'm just really annoyed and let down with the polini kit as should be pretty close straight out the box and is just miles off. I was assuming the polini variator face would make some difference too.

So options like a couple off you have said is go back to stock contra spring then try playing with the weights on the polini variator. I'm could get a set of 12.5g and set off 15g and go from their with it. Really tempted to machine some stainless steel bar stock down and just make some then weigh them and see. Can machine a bit more out every time

[waspmike]

So stock the pcx had 18.5g rollers.

I believe the European PCX comes with 15g weights as the riders are heavier than Asian riders. who get 18g. If you want to know how much your original weights weigh put them in a self-addressed envelope go to the post office and ask how much it costs to post. They will weigh it.

The whole blue (or white for Malossi) spring thing sticks in my throat as it is only done , in my opinion to obfuscate with choice. If they simply sold a variator with 12g or 13g weights no one would by them. They would simply put a set of $5 weights in the stock variator and.... Not considering of course the travel stop that Honda put in the PCX variator.

Derr Mon-eye. If it was my scooter and I wasn't overly concerned about money I would ditch the whole Polini thing and buy a J. Costa and run with stock spring as designed.

On a positive note I think I gleaned from here that the Polini unit has a pulley angle of 13 degrees which allows the pulley halves to run closer which pushes the belt further out.

What I cannot get my head around is why your kit came with 10.2 g weights.

[power-full]

I always got along very well with 13.5 gr... even on the Malossi variator.. on the Yuminashi variator I get along very well with 8.5.gr, but this has a lot to do with the gearbox (the gears) and with the spring too, with the type of belt.. I use one from Gates, it's much smaller than the original... and notice the difference in speeds.. I easily reach 145 kph, on descents I go to 150 kph .. without a look at my DIY

[Mon-Eye]

So stock the pcx had 18.5g rollers.

I believe the European PCX comes with 15g weights as the riders are heavier than Asian riders. who get 18g.

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If you want to know how much your original weights weigh put them in a self-addressed envelope go to the post office and ask how much it costs to post. They will weigh it.

Standard UK model 21 22 came with 18.5g 22123-K1Y-J10 from honda. Hondas new replacements are now 19g for some reason. I'm run in standard honda belt too as not be recommended any alternatives and seams to run ok

[Mon-Eye]

Derr Mon-eye. If it was my scooter and I wasn't overly concerned about money I would ditch the whole Polini thing and buy a J. Costa and run with stock spring as designed.

On a positive note I think I gleaned from here that the Polini unit has a pulley angle of 13 degrees which allows the pulley halves to run closer which pushes the belt further out.

What I cannot get my head around is why your kit came with 10.2 g weights.

I'm really tempted with the jag Costa unit now instead. I'll measure the pully angles and faces today and see what they are too. So polini have now replied and told me

"Hello it does not depend on the kit but on the calibration of the transmission, check if you have inserted the heavier roller kit and that it has not mounted the shim washer, they are strated kits"

The pcx doesn't have a shim washer so that's puy and I installed their rollers. I've now sent them email back with photo off their rollers and with the weight calculations on so see what they say now.

[Conelite]

Surly though the polini kit should just work out the box and be fully optimised for the best top speed capable with the power the pcx has and the rollers and contra spring being optimised to keep the engine spinning around the 6.5k ish rpm Mark.

I been tuning scooters for 15+ years and nothing really ever works "great" right out of the box. Just the nature of the beast. lol
Coming from the Ruckus Scene, the polini was my favourite Variator but when I got the PCX I kept it simple given the added power and went with the cheapest option (NCY). 6k miles no issues yet. Keep in mind the Powerband is 8k+ so the quicker you get it to 8,000rpms and keeping the RPMS hovering around there is what you want.

If you want to know how much your original weights weigh put them in a self-addressed envelope go to the post office and ask how much it costs to post. They will weigh it.

Or you can spend $5 on a gram scale. Seems like a time consuming way to get the weight of your rollers. lol

[power-full]

I leave here some photos... of my PCX... if you have any questions.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/h4YhcftyLF8Ni5aY9

[Conelite]

I leave here some photos... of my PCX... if you have any questions.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/h4YhcftyLF8Ni5aY9

Is that 130km/h on a big bore or stock bore?