NSS300 Fuel Pump problems

[BHaasie]

Picked my scoot up tonight. Took two weeks from tow in to pick up.

Sat on her and pushed the start button and she roared to life

My born on date is 10/2013.

Good luck to all. If you need anymore information please let me know.

[BRed]

Excellent news, BHaasie!

That puts your Forza's assembly in the last quarter of 2013, exactly as predicted.

now you can go out and rack up some miles on that scoot without worries!
Enjoy!

[jonah8208]

New user

Mine broke at just over 1000 miles took about 6 weeks to replace. Bought bike in early 2014 commuter use only.

I found out that despite protestations to the contrary by my dealer, that it was a huge batch fault on fuel pumps and that that Honda want to do a recall but the insurers declined because it is not a big enough problem or a major safety issue, bit of quick research (I am in the re-insurance business which means my company re-insures - insurers, a bit like a bookie laying off bets to protect from a big unpredictable loss) this re-insurance includes everything you can think of including warranty insurance. I do aviation but my contacts assure me that the NS300 Fuel Pump has long since broken through the limit barriers and activated the re-insurance (usually the iinsurer takes the first 10% losses and re-insures the remaining 90%). This means that spare fuel pumps are rare and waiting times are consequently long.

And you all thought Honda etc decided when to recall or not 8-)

During the time waiting for a new fuel pump I was forced to use my Bandit to commute, got caught speeding and ended up disqualified for a month - so that was all Honda's fault!

bummer!

Jonah

[AustinPCX]

Here is what I know, still waiting to get the call my scooter is ready to pick up, part came in yesterday....

They assured me the latest revision fuel pump part ending in 305 was used to replace the 931 that was in the scooter that went bad....
.

PN ending in 931 is the Fuel Filter Set (3). PN ending in 305 is the Fuel Pump Assy. (1) which presumably also contains the same Filter PN 931.

[mboni]

Until we can confirm that any non-ABS Forza has had a pump failure, I think those Forza owners can breathe a sigh of relief and carry on.

I thought ABS was pretty much standard everywhere except the US? That means that the majority of scooters sold would be ABS, and thus having mostly ABS failures reported so far doesn't really mean anything.

[mikecalderone]

Actually both ABS and NON-ABS models are sold in the USA.
I bought the NON-ABS model, and hoping that its not affected.
Mine has a MFG date of 6/13, and last 4 Serial No is 0177

[waybar]

I bought the non-abs model also, MFG date of 6/13 and last 4 serial # 0641.
2800 miles on it now, no fuel pump problems yet, and don't have the oil leak issue yet either.
I think quite a few of the models being sold in the USA are the non-abs model.

[mboni]

You guys are just reinforcing my point. In the US, non-ABS is common, ABS is hard to find. In the rest of the world, non-ABS is hard to find, ABS is common.

[mikecalderone]

Thanks Guys,
I have not heard anyone with this Fuel pump problem on the Nono-ABS model.
If anyone does have this problem on the NON-ABS model, please chime in.

[BRed]

I think we're missing the point here....
ABS or non-ABS isn't the criteria, it's totally coincidental to the issue.

It's the assembly dates...
from what we've gathered so far, there are 2 VIN ranges in the US:
MLHNF0404xxxxxxxx (non-ABS)
MLHNF0414xxxxxxxx (ABS)

each of these will start with 000001 and there will be US Forzas that have the same last 4 digits in their VINs

most non ABS reported so far have birth dates in the 2 or 3 quarter (6/13)
the ABS models' birth date was last quarter (10/13)

but their last 4 digits will overlap because of the ABS/non-ABS identifier codes (0,1)....
that's why we see the last 4 digits that may seem to be in the same range.

At this point we don't "know" anything but we have a hypothesis....
now we just need to test how well that hypothesis holds up to the facts as reported?

Again, it's not ABS or non-ABS that we need to look for.....
we need to look solely at the assembly "birth date" for every US Forza, since we have that information on our VIN sticker.

but.....
I suspect we'll discover that the non-ABS US models were made in a single production run early in 2013 ( on or around 6/13) and the ABS models were made later in 2013 (on or around 10/13).

It would be immensely helpful if all US Forza owners posted their VIN and assembly date.
The information DioTAma posted suggested that only last quarter 2013 and first quarter 2014 production was afflicted with defective pumps.

So far with the 2 known US pump failures, his information has checked out as correct.
Again, we don't know anything, but....we have a theory!


and to Honda (if you're reading this?)

Your founder, Soichiro Honda, would be furious at the very idea of allowing riders on the road on a potentially unsafe vehicle bearing his name....
it wouldn't matter how few were affected, he would fire every one of you who is looking the other way while this happens.
Shame on you.

[mikecalderone]

Here is my VIN MLHNF0407E5000177 Mfg date 6/13

So far no problem with my Forza, with 700 miles on it.

[DioTiAma]

Almighty Honda! You are so proud about your PGM-FI, which is, to be honest, impeccable (almost 25 years old technology) but, in this occasion, one of the key components of this proprietary digital electronic fuel injection system is faulty! How about that! It's like a joke (sometimes i use it as one).

[AustinPCX]

I have ABS
MFG. date 6/13
Last 4 VIN: 0032

No problems so far after 12 months / 8000 miles.

[BRed]

Excellent!

That would indicate not all ABS models are affected, but then there were probably way more ABS model production runs.....
I'm betting the non-ABS models will be the smaller runs, since they are in the minority worldwide.

so we're looking for 9/13, 10/13, 11/13, 12/13, 1/14, 2/14, 3/14 birth dates.

Working off what we know, we should expect pump failures on any Forzas produced in these months with VIN between 0198 and 0219...
we can refine the range as we know specific VINs of failed pumps.

if yours is in this range, be afraid.

[presi13]

Hi,

After 2 weeks my Forza has been fixed (january 2014; 8,018 km) The pump's reference is 305 instead 931.

I hope there aren't any problems in the future. I'm going on thinking that these issues aren't normals for a brand like Honda.

Greetings from Barcelona, Spain.

[BRed]

Thank you, Presi13...

Assembly date 1/14 fits the predictor and a pattern begins to take form.

[dergav]

Likely me just having a "senior moment" ...again!! ...but where on a Forza bought in the UK can I determine the month of assembly.
Have got the VIN and know its assembled in 2013 etc...but I cannot see the "plate" referred to earlier where the month is given...certainly the plate is not on the faring as shown in a pic earlier...

[gn2]

The plate isn't on UK models and the VIN system is different.

[dergav]

DioTiAma..Hi
thanks but not on mine ...thats why I asked ...There is a small rectangle smooth bit of the plastic in that location ( left hand side on mine) but nothing on it.
So I was asking others in UK if they have the sticker/plate someplace else.
As per the Owners manual I have found the VIN number on the frame under the seat behind the tools area but have not located the plate as shown on the picture.

[BRed]

In markets where the assembly date is not marked, the only way to know if yours might be affected is for the owners with known pump failures to share their VIN.
Their VIN becomes a local marker and each additional failure will help define a range.
Since all European Forzas appear to be ABS, there will only be one VIN sequence per country.

some additional info on this.....
with the Big Ruckus we found that Honda produced about 500 bikes per month.....the entire range of '05s (977 units) were produced in 2 months.

on the Forza, we've seen a range of about 500 scoots with a 6/13 assembly date, highest number 0641.
At least one ABS model also had a 6/13 date....
we're working on the assumption that 6/13 is good month for a Forza to be born, until we're proven wrong.

since this has been on my mind, I've checked the VINs of every Forza I see, in person or online.....
the shop where I bought mine now has a brand new ABS model with assembly date 10/13, just waiting for a buyer....
a problem waiting to happen.

I told them that the odds were very high it had a defective pump based on what we're learning.
They just smiled nervously.

I also found this online.....
MLHNF0406E5001496 ....this is the VIN on a newly listed 0 mile non-ABS Forza in Minnesota.

the VIN suggests that ~1500 non-ABS Forzas were imported...that number is larger than I expected.
that means its very likely assembly dates for some non-ABS spilled over into another quarter?