The motorcyclist wave explained

[Sh3p]

I stumbled upon the original, and dramatic thread on accident. I found it very interesting and this has always been a big topic of discussion between groups of the two-wheeled kind. Being a motorcyclist myself and new to scooters, I thought it would be a great learning and understanding opportunity to reengage the conversation (original credit to Mel). So lets start with this.

Let me preface here: These are my educated evaluations and experiences from my motorcycling career, I ride in groups, solo, street, and track. I have rode many types of motorcycles and rode with many different groups of bikers. None of what I will say here should be taken as pure fact, out of context, or without question. These are my professional opinions and as discussion dictates, are debatable.

Motorcyclists wave at eachother. This statement is not to exclude scooter riders, as a scooter technically constitutes a motorcycle of a specific type and build (step-over / no clutch CVT) . So congratulations, you do ride a "motorcycle" if you thought otherwise.

What is waving and why do we do it?
There are many rider signals, waving is the simplest. A simple wave to another rider acknowledges a bond and common ground of two-wheeling. Sometimes between two bikes of the same type or riders of the same fold, its a friendly gesture to acknowledge another rider in a sea of cages (cars). In certain cases and places, waving is substituted with a different gesture; thumb up, peace sign, shakka, solidarity fist in air (yes).
Waving is only one of many signals that riders give to eachother. Others will be explained later.

Breaking two-wheeled motorists down into groups, in an attempt to include everyone while keeping the list simple.
Who they are, and do they wave? in no particular order. (Yes, Sometimes, No)

Scooter riders
You know who you are. All step-over type motorcycles. All makes and models.
Do they wave? Sometimes. I find they do not wave first, but always wave back. I find scooter riders do not understand other signals besides the wave. YOU TELL ME

Sportbike Riders
In the previous and dramatic thread, this was referred to as "Rice Rocket Riders" which I feel is incorrect. Not racist nor offensive, it simply does not accurately describe nor portray the group. Rice Rocket refers to a motorcycle of Asian (Japanese) manufacturing, when in truth, Japanese sportbikes are only a portion of the market. I myself ride a Triumph Daytona 675 (Brittish), my neibhor rides a MV Agusta Brutale (Italian), and most of my riding buddies ride Ducatti (Italian) and KTM (Australian). Sportbikes tend to follow the same aggressive styling and design, making them fairly easy to confuse. "Sportbike Rider" covers all makes and models of the go fast or look fast type.
Do they wave? Yes, sportbike riders sometimes have the reputation of using the highest ammount of rider hand signals including waving.

Cruiser riders
Choppers, bobbers, and cruisers of all makes and models. Includes standard riding position motorcycles. Most Harleys, older Japanese standard bikes, Cafe bikes (although many can have aggressive riding positions), and custom cycles fit this bill.
Do they wave? Yes, cruiser riders wave. They sometimes have a reputation of only waving to bikes of their kind.

ADV / SuMo / Dirt riders
Adventure riders, supermoto, and dirtbike riders. Big name for a big group. Exactly what they sound like. Large adventure bikes, supermotos and dirtbikes, all of the upright riding position type. These riders are often a close crossover to other types of motorcycling. I find they are generally more experienced in skill due to the unpredictable nature of... riding in nature.
Do they wave? Yes, absolutely to eachother as their riding is a little more "off the beaten path" no pun intended. As stated above, because this type of riding is a close crossover to sport riding, these riders wave a little more often having diverse riding and situational experience.

Above all, most riders are apt to wave at riders with the same type of moto.

So it sounds like everyone waves right? Then why do we have such a disconnect?
I think this is a situational issue. There is a myriad of reasons why another rider did not wave to you, or did not wave back. Its best not to take it personal. Its easy to get caught up in the joy of riding, its easy to miss a simple wave, its also more important to focus on your riding than waving to the other bikes you see in oncoming traffic.
Finally, riders learn signals and when to use them out of situation and experience. Since each group experiences riding a little differently, they don't always share the same experiences, and when they do, the common ground is waving. Signals were invented by different groups and there isn't really a uniformed set for everyone. So depending on where/when and who you learned to ride with or without, will determine the signals you know, use, and react to.
On my usual canyon runs, all the riders give signals to communicate whats going on. Riders coming down a mountain may give a thumb up to say the coast is clear for you to canyon dance quickly. A rider may also pat their head to alert others of Law Enforcement. I never see any scooters in my canyons, so if a scooterist does not understand the head pat "DUDE THERES A COP BACK THERE!" signal, i'm kind of not surprised. Is it safe to assume because the scooter does not play in the canyons like the big bikes do, they do not know all the signals?

Speaking of patting my head at someone on a scooter, here are the other signals i mentioned.

"Other" signals
I feel this is another reason why waving is misunderstood.

-Head pat (patting the top of your helmet with the palm of your hand)
Warns other riders of LEO (Law Enforcement Officer) presence nearby or around the corner. We use these everywhere and especially in the canyons to warn other riders.

-Side wave (seeing a rider in front of you wave on their side)
This is the passing wave, another canyon riding signal that can be used anywhere. The rider in front of you waving is signaling you to pass him on the side. You should also wave another rider past if you feel too much pressure.

-Low wave (fanning motion downward with your palm, hand low)
The signal for slow down, you will sometimes see LEOs or security give you this warning signal if they think you are riding too fast, or just look/sound too fast (yes it does happen). Riders use this signal too while coaching others or to warn of LEO presence (in addition or in lieu of a head pat signal)

-Fist in air (left fist balled, holding steady above head)
The signal for group slow down. Used for group riding weather you are leading or not. In a group, while following safe staggered riding postion and reaction space, if the leader spots an obstacle or hazard in the path of travel, he or she will put up their left fist, similar to the military signal for halt. This signals riders that the group is slowing down. Group riding signals are repeated by each rider down the line so that all riders are communicated to and communicating back.

Leg out pointing at ground
Road hazard. Gravel, wet patch, rocks, anything that could be hazardous to run over with a motorcycle. Another group signal, pointed out by the leader and repeated by each rider to communicate to everyone. Use whichever leg is closest to the hazard to point to it with your toe/foot.
***On the race track, this is the "I'm exiting the course" signal you use to tell other riders you will be slowing down to exit at pit"***



So, this begs the question. Do YOU wave? and why?
Do you give other riders signals? or wait to see if they signal you?
What is your experience with hand signals, and how do you feel about them?

[gn2]

Why would you wave at someone just because they're on a two wheeler?
Makes no sense.

[Sh3p]

I've never ridden anywhere in Europe, i'm not certain what riding etiquette you folks use.
In the states, especially on the west coast, riders acknowledge and wave to eachother. It's a courtesty and act of comradery. Generally, riders that do group rides, events, and races, share the courtesy.
This is also more common with the bigger bikes, and less common with solo riders, and scooters.

I recommend you watch the "Why We Ride" documentary. It explains a little more in full.
www.whyweride.com

[gn2]

They do it here too.
I ride to get to and from work, why would I wave at a random stranger just because they happen to be on a two wheeler?
I don't wave to other car drivers when I'm in the car either.
Unless they let me out of a side road or wait at a passing place on a narrow road, that kind of thing.

[Sh3p]

Its the commonality of a passion for motorcycles and riding. which is only one of many reasons for riding, if you do not share it thats fine. Perhaps yours is only utility and commuting, another smart reason.

Watch the doc.

[homey]

Lets do it! Good to know.. they must drive around with their hands up all the time in some of these little countries.

[you you]

Lets do it! Good to know.. they must drive around with their hands up all the time in some of these little countries.

I'm going to start a Mexican Wave the next time I'm on the way to Lidls

[Valiant]

Its the commonality of a passion for motorcycles and riding. which is only one of many reasons for riding, if you do not share it thats fine. Perhaps yours is only utility and commuting, another smart reason.

Watch the doc.

I wave at other cyclists because waving at a car with heavily tinted windows is a complete waste of my time .

[homey]

GOOD MORNING VIETNAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The only wave these people do is when they lock on the rear of the bike in front and form a wall to block cross traffic. This makes Chicago lunch hour look like a Kansas back road.

[kramnala58]

It seems that the biker wave is part of the biking 'culture' in many places. We can choose to participate in the culture or we can choose not to. It doesn't make it right or wrong.

[WORFAB]

I wave when I'm waved at by a larger bike or I will waved to a scooter rider. Also when in a group we have used all those signals minus the low hand one. This is coming from the ruckus world.

I often felt like the wave was more of a respect thing, waving to say you respect the other riders choice in bike or you respect his riding style or just respecting fellow rider. I also never wave to squids, they don't deserve the respect of the wave.

[kramnala58]

I also never wave to squids, they don't deserve the respect of the wave.

This one is for you WORFAB.

No Squids.jpeg (27.83 KiB) Viewed 4331 times

[Sh3p]

^^^ LOL. No squidding

Very good assessments all around. Yes the wave is much more a part of the motorcycle comunnity, which the scoots sometimes get left out of. It is also a sign of respect, there are times when a car enthusiast (in a nice car) will wave as an acknowledgement of "hey, thats a nice ride, i like nice rides too" or maybe they were a rider at some point prior. Also very prominent where there is a strong car and bike culture, like we do here in Los Angeles.

[Mel46]

I have to say thank you for explaining this as well as you did, and I apologize if the term Rice Rocket is derogatory. I did not know that. When I first started riding there were only cruisers and the European racers, which included Triumphs and the various Italian brands. Then the Japanese bikes came along, with most of the 'Rice Rockets' being two stroke super fast and super smokey, high whining (like a sewing machine on steroids) bikes. Then Honda started producing 4 stroke, casual riding and small cruising bikes and the world of riding changed. Many of the previous 2 stroke bikes changed to 4 stroke but still had the high pitched whine. So when I learned to ride, the term Rice Rocket to us meant those bikes that had that high pitched whine. I think those are now called Sport bikes. Where I started riding, we didn't care what bike you rode. Yes, we made fun of our friends if they bought one of the 2 stroke bikes, but we were still glad to have them ride with us....and those little oil burning two stroke bikes could climb hills much better than our bikes could, so they did have their place. No one ever said go away or anything like that. Riding is for anyone and everyone as far as I am concerned. I have noticed while riding though that those on sport bikes seem to wave less, but I think it might have to do with concentration on keeping those 'beasts' controlled rathered than the riders not wanting to wave. As I understand it now, a lot of those sport bikes can top out at close to 200 mph. That is a lot of horsepower to control, and the position the rider is in is not comfortable like a cruiser, so I understand if those riders are busy and don't look up in time to catch a wave. So, to anyone I have inadvertently offended, I apologize.

[Bash On!]

I only wave in parades and processions. The royal wave--the hand held upright, gently rotating 90 degrees.

No, seriously, I wave all the time unless I'm about to crash, or am thinking about something else and don't see the other rider until it's too late, or I just don't feel like it at the time (nothing personal).

gn2: "I don't wave to other car drivers when I'm in the car either.'

People in rural Texas do that. Not many cars out there so you don't have to do it often. Works like this: steer the vehicle with one hand placed on the top of the steering wheel. On approach of another vehicle to hollerin' distance, raise your index finger approximately 45 degrees and then return finger to steering wheel.

Locals don't usually finger wave to city-slickers (pretty much anybody not in an old pick-up), so I get guilty pleasure when my salute is returned.

[Sh3p]

Mel, it was my pleasure. The term is not really derogatory so much as it is old, it also applied to cars too for good reason, so you are right in that regard. To be fair, amongst bikers its common to poke fun at the nationality of a bike in that manner, in a polite and joking but respectful manner of course.
I'm a big fan of the old 2-strokes myself, particularly because of how simple the operate, the power the put out per cc, and the low cost to operate and maintain. I actually looking for a Honda NSR50 2-stroke race bike for next season, it screams, leans, and does everything my big bike does, at a fraction of the speed.

This is me at practice on a CRF50 1stroker, like a giant lol.

People in rural Texas do that. Not many cars out there so you don't have to do it often. Works like this: steer the vehicle with one hand placed on the top of the steering wheel. On approach of another vehicle to hollerin' distance, raise your index finger approximately 45 degrees and then return finger to steering wheel.

Locals don't usually finger wave to city-slickers (pretty much anybody not in an old pick-up), so I get guilty pleasure when my salute is returned.

Hahaha, i love Texans.
I was in Santa Fe two weeks ago doing some white water rafting and our raft leader said "Who here is from Texas? I shoulda asked at base but we always got Texans and I'll turn this shit around if we don't have at least one..."
Guess you guys are well loved in Santa Fe, which i can assume is kinda like y'alls back yard basically.

[Bash On!]

I used to confuse the locals. I had a pick-up, but it was a furrin' one. You could almost see them debating whether to do the finger wave, often waiting to the last possible moment. Now, I drive a Subaru, which is a dead giveaway that I don't deserve any acknowledgement.

I was a New Mexican before I became a (temporary) Texan. Texans spend a lot of money in NM, which is a poor state. You'll see a large number of Texas tagged vehicles in NM, but few NM cars in Texas.

We used to joke about Texans being out of their element in NM. If there was a headline "Hiker lost in mountains," ten-to-one it was a Texan.

[Steph]

We get the wave from a wide verity of riders. Does seem the sport bike riders wave most. Always return the wave. I think it's cool!

[CaptnJim]

I just wave at the pretty girls.

[homey]

So is the guy on the left waving, telling them to slow down because of police? Assuming he's not from Ireland because that would mean there is some shist on the road ahead. This is hard... close the thread please