Tuning the Forza 300 CVT

sendler2112 · Post by **sendler2112** » Wed Sep 16, 2015 4:21 pm

Why change the Vario on a Forza at all when the factory one works perfect with some light sliders.

Oyabun · Post by **Oyabun** » Wed Sep 16, 2015 4:43 pm

Fully offtopic, but I really like your Heidenau K66 tires Mario.
I've just got the same types mounted on my PCX a few days ago.

sendler2112 · Post by **sendler2112** » Wed Sep 16, 2015 5:41 pm

I tried to get Heidenau snows for my PCX but nobody in the USA can get them.

Mario · Post by **Mario** » Wed Sep 16, 2015 11:33 pm

Out of curiosity Sendler

sendler2112 wrote:Why change the Vario on a Forza at all when the factory one works perfect with some light sliders.

Mario · Post by **Mario** » Wed Sep 16, 2015 11:39 pm

I love them, great bond with all kind of weathers and they last very long

Rear tire is now 15" instead of 14" this make's him also larger so less deviation on the speedo meter, still have to check how much though.

Oyabun wrote:Fully offtopic, but I really like your Heidenau K66 tires Mario.
I've just got the same types mounted on my PCX a few days ago.

Oyabun · Post by **Oyabun** » Thu Sep 17, 2015 4:07 am

Mario wrote:I love them, great bond with all kind of weathers and they last very long

Rear tire is now 15" instead of 14" this make's him also larger so less deviation on the speedo meter, still have to check how much though.

You mean they are 150 wide instead of 140, or you have really changed your rear wheels?

Mario · Post by **Mario** » Thu Sep 17, 2015 4:16 am

My bad

Yes it must be 150 vs 140.

Oyabun wrote:
Mario wrote:I love them, great bond with all kind of weathers and they last very long

Rear tire is now 15" instead of 14" this make's him also larger so less deviation on the speedo meter, still have to check how much though.
You mean they are 150 wide instead of 140, or you have really changed your rear wheels?

Oyabun · Post by **Oyabun** » Thu Sep 17, 2015 4:41 am

Mario wrote:Out of curiosity Sendler

sendler2112 wrote:Why change the Vario on a Forza at all when the factory one works perfect with some light sliders.

I don't know about the slider profile of the stock Forza vario, but the Malossi multivar 2000 what I have for the PCX has a completely different transmission profile compared to the original. I've ran lots of tests with different setups. I have 11,5, and factory 16,5 gr rollers and 14g dr pulley sliders for the factory vario (20x15) and 10,5 and 12,5g rollers (23x18) for the Malossi. I've tested 14g sliders, 3x14g sliders +3x11,5g rollers, 6x11,5g sliders and factory setup in the original vario, and all 3 (6x10,5;6x12,5 and mixed) in the Malossi.

The multivar seems to be optimised for a much higher cruising speed, top end and acceleration than the stock regardless of weights used.

The stock one has a dip in the midrange and then reaches max RPM too early effectively limiting top speed and acceleration. If one uses light enough rollers/sliders to accelerate at the best RPM the stock vario reaches the RPM limiter too early. I believe the stock unit has been optimised for in city speeds, and to lower fuel consumption and noise levels - which it is delivering with great success.

When testing the malossi i've found it holds a higher RPM steadily until like 80km/h, then drops RPM a few hundred revs (with the 10,5gr rollers it accelerates around 7800rpm and drops to 7400) for cruise and starts to raise rpm linearily from there and reaches a higher top end also. The 12,5gr rollers set a 7200rpm accel and 6900rpm cruise at 90km so rather optimized for max torque therefore potentially less fuel consumption.

I've checked the belt travel with a traditional sharpie marking method, and the multivar has pushed the belt all the way in and out (approx 1mm left from the markings comared to the factory setup's 2,5-3mm on both ends). All this with the stock torque spring, and everything else.
So while I do not have an action camera to compare the results by seeing about 4-6km higher top end, and continuous acceleration right at the max. power band the malossi seems to be definitely superior to any potential setup with the stock vario. Unfortunately I had no chance to test sliders in the multivar as they use larger (and most possibly longer lasting) sizes so not interchangeable with my set of weights.

However if one does not want to spend on a new vario - dr. pulley sliders seem to be the best bang for the money.

Hope it helps

Ps: Mario, have you bought the kevlar reinforced belt with the vario also?

sendler2112 · Post by **sendler2112** » Thu Sep 17, 2015 6:58 am

His videos of the stock vario with light sliders show very responsive and perfect control in balance with the stock torque slot. But these aftermarket varios can give a slightly longer final gearing.

Mario · Post by **Mario** » Thu Sep 17, 2015 4:13 pm

Thats where I am hooping for, more range at start and final gear, now there are left a few mm unused pulley area

sendler2112 wrote:His videos of the stock vario with light sliders show very responsive and perfect control in balance with the stock torque slot. But these aftermarket varios can give a slightly longer final gearing.

Oyabun · Post by **Oyabun** » Fri Sep 18, 2015 8:41 am

Mario wrote:My bad

Yes it must be 150 vs 140.
Rear tire is now 15" instead of 14" this make's him also larger so less deviation on the speedo meter, still have to check how much though.

If you have gone from 140/70R13 to 150/70R13 the difference is about 2,7% increase in circumference and roughly the same decrease in indicated speed - or equally less speedo error in fact.

Mario · Post by **Mario** » Fri Sep 18, 2015 10:16 am

With the Heidenau K66 150/70-13 rear tyre the speedo meter is now 2% to positive, checked with GPS, 100km/h on the speedo meter is really 98km/h and 140km/h GPS on the speedo meter is almost 145km/h.

With the standard 140/70-13 Scootsmart rear tyre I had about 4% to positive readings on the speedo meter.

Btw, with the Arrow exhaust + race manifold I reach easily 140km/h GPS now, and with the original exhaust I barely reached more than 130km/h GPS, so I am not only happy with the sound but also with the results

Oyabun wrote:
Mario wrote:My bad

Yes it must be 150 vs 140.
Rear tire is now 15" instead of 14" this make's him also larger so less deviation on the speedo meter, still have to check how much though.
If you have gone from 140/70R13 to 150/70R13 the difference is about 2,7% increase in circumference and roughly the same decrease in indicated speed - or equally less speedo error in fact.

BRed · Post by **BRed** » Fri Sep 18, 2015 7:36 pm

How many kilometers have you accumulated on your Forza so far, Mario?

Mario · Post by **Mario** » Fri Sep 18, 2015 11:09 pm

BRed wrote:How many kilometers have you accumulated on your Forza so far, Mario?

Roughly 3000km BRed

homie · Post by **homie** » Fri Sep 18, 2015 11:21 pm

This has got to be a record

4200 views and 13 pages later... IS IT TUNED YET

Mario · Post by **Mario** » Fri Sep 18, 2015 11:59 pm

I am halfway; )

homie wrote:This has got to be a record
4200 views and 13 pages later... IS IT TUNED YET

Mario · Post by **Mario** » Sun Sep 20, 2015 11:08 am

Nice day for shooting some video's of the latest results.

sendler2112 · Post by **sendler2112** » Sun Sep 20, 2015 11:19 am

It is quicker with the exhaust.

Mario · Post by **Mario** » Sun Sep 20, 2015 11:29 am

Absolutely

Half second faster 0-100 (don't forget the bigger Heidenau rear tyre)
With the standard exhaust I barely reached 130Km/h GPS, now 143Km/h GPS

sendler2112 wrote:It is quicker with the exhaust.

Mario · Post by **Mario** » Thu Sep 24, 2015 10:21 am

Returned the J.Costa with the older white sliders and directly ordered the latest version with the more wear resistant bleu sliders at a other vendor, should arrive in two weeks.

Also got a Dyno test from J.Costa, but its not clear to me what and how they tested

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Tuning the Forza 300 CVT

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