Careful in the wet

fish · Post by **fish** » Tue Jan 27, 2015 9:11 pm

Owner says to replace the OEM tires with some Michelin City Grips for wet riding.
Braking in the wet.....maybe slow down in the wet.
Fish
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJ2u0w1 ... 1422327029

dkazzed · Post by **dkazzed** » Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:12 pm

I had a similar fall a couple of months ago. Mind those rear brakes, if they lock up then the rear end is just going to want to swing around. I was almost determined I should get a Forza or Burgman 200 for the ABS, but I practiced some hard braking in wet and found that it's just about impossible to lock up the front tires.

MikeP · Post by **MikeP** » Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:44 pm

I have been using Pirelli Diablo's with great success.

skuuter · Post by **skuuter** » Wed Jan 28, 2015 3:14 pm

"So Far".....I've had no issues with the Dunlop Scoot Smart Stockers.....I've encountered about every braking scenario possible since I live in the Monteagle Mountain, Smoky Mountains, "Dragon" Area. They felt really slick at first, but after about 1200 miles, scuffed in nicely.....

fish · Post by **fish** » Wed Jan 28, 2015 6:25 pm

skuuter wrote:"So Far".....I've had no issues with the Dunlop Scoot Smart Stockers.....I've encountered about every braking scenario possible since I live in the Monteagle Mountain, Smoky Mountains, "Dragon" Area. They felt really slick at first, but after about 1200 miles, scuffed in nicely.....

The scooter bring dumped under braking here is a PCX...I think he is talking about the poor wet grip of the stock I R C tires fitted by Honda on the PCX.
Fish

you you · Post by **you you** » Wed Jan 28, 2015 6:32 pm

fish wrote:
skuuter wrote:"So Far".....I've had no issues with the Dunlop Scoot Smart Stockers.....I've encountered about every braking scenario possible since I live in the Monteagle Mountain, Smoky Mountains, "Dragon" Area. They felt really slick at first, but after about 1200 miles, scuffed in nicely.....
The scooter bring dumped under braking here is a PCX...I think he is talking about the poor wet grip of the stock I R C tires fitted by Honda on the PCX.
Fish

The ircs are fine. Not a single real problem but you can suppose one I guess.

skuuter · Post by **skuuter** » Wed Jan 28, 2015 9:19 pm

you you wrote:
fish wrote:
skuuter wrote:"So Far".....I've had no issues with the Dunlop Scoot Smart Stockers.....I've encountered about every braking scenario possible since I live in the Monteagle Mountain, Smoky Mountains, "Dragon" Area. They felt really slick at first, but after about 1200 miles, scuffed in nicely.....
The scooter bring dumped under braking here is a PCX...I think he is talking about the poor wet grip of the stock I R C tires fitted by Honda on the PCX.
Fish
The ircs are fine. Not a single real problem but you can suppose one I guess.

I wore 4 rears, and 2 fronts out of these also with no problems on my PCXs.......interesting.....

SECoda · Post by **SECoda** » Wed Jan 28, 2015 9:39 pm

The testing I read said there is no difference between the IRC's and the M Grips as long as the pavement is dry. The significant difference is when the pavement is wet. I don't ride on wet pavement. One test was just riding on paint strips and the IRC's were pretty slippery he claimed relative to the Grips. I will wait for these IRC's to wear out.

gn2 · Post by **gn2** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 2:35 am

IRCs are fine in the wet if you ride to the conditions and know how to brake properly in the wet.

speedandstyle · Post by **speedandstyle** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 5:53 am

Tires can make a big difference. The stock tires on my old Zuma were horrible but once I fitted Pirelli SL26s it gripped much better, dry and especially wet.

It doesn't seem like he is going all that fast but something happened. One thing I do wish he and many others would do is learn to edit! we watch him ride normally and then wait at a light before finally the accident happens.

gn2 · Post by **gn2** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 11:04 am

The OEM IRC tyres are fine if you ride properly.
I did 18,000 miles on a PCX IRC front, it never slipped or locked once.
The rider in the video appears to have locked the front wheel.
Which could be down to poor technique or inexperience or excess speed or lack of anticipation or poor/contaminated road surface or a combination of all of the above.
Wouldn't have happened with ABS.....

dkazzed · Post by **dkazzed** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 12:03 pm

It is important for riders and drivers to get to an open parking lot in expected riding conditions and find out how much traction your tires and brakes have, and then stay within those limits.

For example, every year in the first snow storm I will always head out in my car to do all types of maneuvers that involve accelerating, turning, and braking. The main reason is that it'll have been almost a year since I've last driven in snow, sometimes even two or three. 1. I have to relearn the limits of my car, 2. The winter tires will have degraded over the past year anyway.

Back to two wheels, I rushed myself into scootering so I crashed about a month later. I was certain I locked up my front tire, but some experienced motorcyclists were saying I locked up the rear one. I argued with them, until I went out to a parking lot myself. Sure enough, I realized that when I have both brakes mashed, with a lot of weight transfer to the front, my front tires were tracking straight but my rear tire was locked up with less weight and was skidding to the side much like what I experienced in my crash. I then tried braking hard with my front brakes only and found I could stop very quickly with very little drama. Then reintroduced a little bit of rear brake to further boost that stopping. That's my limit.

If you use only your rear brake, with less weight transfer off the rear you likely won't experience a lock up. But you also get less braking power. I haven't tested this though. I should.

And on a side note, my front brakes started squealing earlier this year and I found the pads were almost gone, so I started riding in a manner where brake usage was greatly reduced. Leaving lots of room, anticipating traffic and traffic lights, etc. But with my brake pads replaced, I find myself gambling on stale green lights again. I shouldn't but it takes my 50cc forever just to get to 35 mph that I don't want to lose that momentum.

skuuter · Post by **skuuter** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 12:25 pm

dkazzed wrote:It is important for riders and drivers to get to an open parking lot in expected riding conditions and find out how much traction your tires and brakes have, and then stay within those limits.

For example, every year in the first snow storm I will always head out in my car to do all types of maneuvers that involve accelerating, turning, and braking. The main reason is that it'll have been almost a year since I've last driven in snow, sometimes even two or three. 1. I have to relearn the limits of my car, 2. The winter tires will have degraded over the past year anyway.

Back to two wheels, I rushed myself into scootering so I crashed about a month later. I was certain I locked up my front tire, but some experienced motorcyclists were saying I locked up the rear one. I argued with them, until I went out to a parking lot myself. Sure enough, I realized that when I have both brakes mashed, with a lot of weight transfer to the front, my front tires were tracking straight but my rear tire was locked up with less weight and was skidding to the side much like what I experienced in my crash. I then tried braking hard with my front brakes only and found I could stop very quickly with very little drama. Then reintroduced a little bit of rear brake to further boost that stopping. That's my limit.

If you use only your rear brake, with less weight transfer off the rear you likely won't experience a lock up. But you also get less braking power. I haven't tested this though. I should.

And on a side note, my front brakes started squealing earlier this year and I found the pads were almost gone, so I started riding in a manner where brake usage was greatly reduced. Leaving lots of room, anticipating traffic and traffic lights, etc. But with my brake pads replaced, I find myself gambling on stale green lights again. I shouldn't but it takes my 50cc forever just to get to 35 mph that I don't want to lose that momentum.

Front Brake is all I use (if I need any slight drag braking), if even going extremely fast in major twisties such as "The Dragon", etc. I never use Rear Brakes unless coming to a complete stop, or very short, quick panic stops. A lot of Honda's (and Others) Motorcycles and Scooters have Linked Brakes (not my Favorite set-up except on 1800 Gold Wings and VTX 1800 Cruisers), so You're actually putting on all of the rear, and some front brake when using the Rear Lever, or Pedal......

gn2 · Post by **gn2** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 1:05 pm

dkazzed wrote:If you use only your rear brake, with less weight transfer off the rear you likely won't experience a lock up.

With the CBS you can't brake without using some front brake.
The low CofG and rearward weight balance of a scooter means that the rear brake is more effective than on a conventional motorcycle.
It also means the front wheel is more likely to lock on a scooter.
So the braking techniques advocated for conventional motorcycles are not ideal for scooters.

When the rear wheel locks you normally go in a straight line and are able to control the bike.
When the front wheel locks it usually deflects the steering left or right and this normally results in a crash.

Always use both brake levers together and be careful of using too much right lever, especially in the wet.

kcpcx · Post by **kcpcx** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 1:51 pm

Agree with most everything gn2 states above.

skuuter · Post by **skuuter** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 2:54 pm

Wife and I 2-up on one of our Honda Silver Wing Scooters at Deals Gap/The Dragon......

First step in handling is to simply "Trust Your Tires".....

...

fish · Post by **fish** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 6:34 pm

skuuter wrote:Wife and I 2-up on one of our Honda Silver Wing Scooters at Deals Gap/The Dragon......

First step in handling is to simply "Trust Your Tires"..... ...

I'd completely avoid that area - having seen too many videos of all the nut-jobs riding too fast with too little experience (or imagination!).
Seems like it would not be too relaxing for the passenger, as well.
My guess is that folks who ride that area are not looking for a relaxing 2-wheel outing. Perhaps an amusement park ride?
Fish

SECoda · Post by **SECoda** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 6:47 pm

Only three deaths in 2014 - there have been something like 35 since 2000. Some of our Ozark foothill roads get pretty similarly gnarly. Folks just need to slow down.

kcpcx · Post by **kcpcx** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 8:41 pm

SECoda, you've installed the aftermarket (NCY) variator/rollers in your PCX? Eager to hear about what you think of them. I knew you had bought those a while back but I've not been online much lately and seeing your sig reminded me of it.

SECoda · Post by **SECoda** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 9:37 pm

I have a large thread.

They work as advertised. I am a bit shy on top speed with the old belt but a lot faster than stock w/o hitting the rev limiter like I did at 68. I also see faster acceleration at lower speeds. The only question now is whether a better belt (Kevlar) is worthwhile and does the belt wear faster with the new parts. Belts are so inexpensive that i think I will try one of the Kevlar reinforced ones if I can find it for our 2013's. The entire upgrade was really inexpensive. The change is very fast and easy and the same with going back to stock if need be so low risk.

http://hondapcx.org/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3821

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