Upgrading from a PCX?

[Valiant]

I'm considering selling my PCX as my last series of mods likely broke something and left it in a half-assed state, and I'm not sure it's worth trying to fix & finish it anymore.

It's stuck at a speed of 60-65 mph before rpms shoot straight up to the limiter without the speed going any higher. A tech at a motorcycle dealer(which sells Suzuki Burgmans) tells me that there doesn't seem to be anything wrong with the transmission, and I would have to assume my own attempts to find out what the problem is won't be any more successful. The PCX also has a bore kit(175cc) installed along with a high performance camshaft and EFI controller(utterly useless without an O2 sensor), but no larger throttle body. Thus the half-ass state it's in.

I figure maybe I could at least sell it for $2500, as it does have several accessories(adjustable brake levers, Givi windscreen, OEM top box), and get something else that's highway comfortable.

My brother insists that a CBR250R would be the way to go, I balked, but he's accusing me of bitching about it before even trying it. He evidently didn't remember that I sat on his once and wasn't able to plant my foot(just one) on the ground without tip-toeing.

I'm wondering if there are any good alternatives to go for. I've had my eye on the Suzuki TU250X, though someone did tell me once that 250cc cruisers might leave me wanting for more power as they aren't really tuned for speed. Not sure if sport bikes have better speed tuning(acceleration for sure), but I kind of fail to see how a 250cc cruiser would fall behind a 150cc scooter. I also had a preference for fuel injection, thus the TU250X.

I would also think that even a CBR250R would elevate the risk of theft by quite a bit. I'm just thinking a 250cc cruiser would be worth less to a thief than a 50cc moped.

Other restriction is that whatever I buy needs to fit in here:

[gn2]

RPM shooting up without an increase in speed will be a clutch or drivebelt issue.
To get the benefit of a big bore kit you usually need to adjust the gearing......?

[Valiant]

RPM shooting up without an increase in speed will be a clutch or drivebelt issue.
To get the benefit of a big bore kit you usually need to adjust the gearing......?

An aftermarket variator doesn't count?

I'm just not sure if I should try to fix it, which might require a further $200 investment(for tools), and more of a time commitment. I'd also risk doing more damage if I screw up the transmission work.

On the other hand, my theory was that I'd have to do my own maintenance at some point, either on the PCX or on a motorcycle, because good moto shops are hard to find on this island. And maybe I ought to get my hands dirty now.

In its current state, it's still perfectly usable to get me from school to work and vice versa.

[gn2]

Nope, it doesn't.
Chances are the variator could be the source of your problems.
Change it back to standard and change the final drive gears to give a longer gearing.
Money spent on tools and learning is money saved in the long term.

[kcpcx]

A CB300F would be a bike I'd take a hard look at if I wanted a smaller, but not too small, all rounder bike.

A beater bike that is fairly fun, has some character, and is underrated in my opinion is a used Buell Blast. You can pick them up for stupid cheap money and they are easy to work on. Belt drive, so simple in that regard. If I wanted a good used bike value, something that was a cheap all rounder that didn't cost me an arm and a leg and wasn't a museum piece that I worried about, that would be a contender. My wife used to have one and it was very good. I liked riding it better than my old Ninja 250, for example. It (Blast) was way less refined, but was more comfortable and you didn't have to rev at 7-8k rpm to get anything out of it like you did the little Ninja.

The Blast probably doesn't appeal to anyone to steal it, either, a bonus in your area.

Other ideas that are reliable, under the radar, non theft magnet bikes. Used Yamaha Virago 250 (250 V twin!). Used Suzuki Savage 650. Ninja 500R. A Suzuki DR200SE would be a very versatile little bike. I rode one during my MSF course and really liked it. If you could find one, a Kawasaki Super Sherpa or KLR-250 maybe. The Virago and Savage are particularly good for the height challenged individual. Less so, a Sherpa or KLR. Thinking back to new bikes, a GW250 might be worth a look.

A perfect condition, bone stock used PCX of recent vintage would probably be a $2000 machine in my area...maybe a hundred or two more. You're in Hawaii, so scooters are probably more popular there and hence bring more money used perhaps. One thing I have learned over time with vehicles in general: aftermarket mods often add nothing to used value, and can often detract, actually. Most people either want bone stock, or to do their own mods. Money spent on customizing things rarely pays off when you sell. Now, if you do something small that appeals to a wide range of buyers, like a GIVI top case for instance, sure, that might appeal to a buyer. But engine mods, drivetrain mods...very hit and miss. A lot of potential buyers will see that as a negative.

[Valiant]

Nope, it doesn't.
Chances are the variator could be the source of your problems.
Change it back to standard and change the final drive gears to give a longer gearing.
Money spent on tools and learning is money saved in the long term.

Yeah, I can't change the drive gears without a press, and I had a little drama with the scooter shop that installed my bore kit, so I likely can't have any complicated work done, or change the parts back to stock.

I can't say I understand why the variator would cause issues, as I've tried two different variators with the same result. It's also worth noting that this issue appears to be progressive in nature. I used to get 75 mph with the same variator(only went to 9200 rpms) for about a week, then it went down to 60.5 mph with high rev(at 9600 rpms) with no transmission changes. That was with 12g sliders. Going to 13g seemed to correct the issue for one day(72 mph), then it went back down to 65 mph. My last plan was to go back to rollers, and move up to 14g weights. I'm thinking the Takegawa 11% center spring was simply a hell of a lot stiffer than 11%, but it's kind of a necessity to eliminate takeoff lag.

I don't have anyone to help me with the work, but I figure I could pop the trans open, put a camera on the ground pointed at the transmission, and just run the thing on the stand. I would think a transmission problem would quickly reveal itself if the belt doesn't rise all the way.

[Valiant]

No opinion on the TU250? It caught my eye as a 250cc cruiser with fuel injection. It also has some appeal as a single cylinder, which makes it very slim and compact.

I suppose it's more of a girl's bike, but I'm not exactly looking to impress anyone with it.

[gn2]

No opinion on the TU250?

Its far less practical than any scooter.
But a decent commuter hack nonetheless.

I believe the motor is made for Suzuki by Jinan Qingqi in China, they also manufacture whole bikes which are sold here as Sinnis, Lexmoto, Pulse and HMC brands.

http://www.motorcyclesupermarket.com/im ... G_7240.jpg
http://www.haywards.co.uk/uploads/1/3/4 ... 1.jpg?1072

A 125 Sinnis Apache completd the Mongol rally, arguably the world's toughest motorsports event.

Anywho, back on topic, are there any used Kymco People GTi300 scooters about?
That would be your best option imo.

Stuck record mode on: Tuning up a PCX is a total waste of time and effort, far easier to just buy a faster scooter.

[kcpcx]

Great idea on the Kymco 300. I've never seen a new one in the wild, let alone a used one. Quite rare, sadly.

One of the physicians I work with told me she used to practice in Honolulu. She said scooter theft is a big problem there. A smaller traditional cycle might be more of a theft deterrent due to a lot fewer people knowing how to operate a clutch and gear shift vs. just hopping on a scooter and twisting the throttle. This might be a consideration in Honolulu.

Something like a Scarabeo or People would probably be easier to find in the States than a GT300i, but I can's speak for Hawaii, which is a unique case compared to the rest of the country. Per capita scooter use is probably light years higher in Hawaii than anywhere else stateside.

[Valiant]

No opinion on the TU250?

Its far less practical than any scooter.
But a decent commuter hack nonetheless.

I believe the motor is made for Suzuki by Jinan Qingqi in China, they also manufacture whole bikes which are sold here as Sinnis, Lexmoto, Pulse and HMC brands.

http://www.motorcyclesupermarket.com/im ... G_7240.jpg
http://www.haywards.co.uk/uploads/1/3/4 ... 1.jpg?1072

A 125 Sinnis Apache completd the Mongol rally, arguably the world's toughest motorsports event.

Anywho, back on topic, are there any used Kymco People GTi300 scooters about?
That would be your best option imo.

Stuck record mode on: Tuning up a PCX is a total waste of time and effort, far easier to just buy a faster scooter.

Isn't that true of any vehicle? It's always easier to buy a better vehicle. Just that performance mods should probably be left to the mechanically competent.

Despite the convenience of an underseat storage, I probably won't go back to scooters, especially large scooters.

As I said, I probably pissed off the only scooter shop on the island that works on stuff like this, hence why the jump to motos to open up my options.

I haven't heard any negative comments on the TU250X, so I'd probably shoot for that one. Cruisers generally seem to be avoided like the plague unless it's a Harley by thieves, so I figure the cute little thing wouldn't even deserve a glance for prying eyes.

[kcpcx]

No opinion on the TU250?

Its far less practical than any scooter.
But a decent commuter hack nonetheless.

I believe the motor is made for Suzuki by Jinan Qingqi in China, they also manufacture whole bikes which are sold here as Sinnis, Lexmoto, Pulse and HMC brands.

http://www.motorcyclesupermarket.com/im ... G_7240.jpg
http://www.haywards.co.uk/uploads/1/3/4 ... 1.jpg?1072

A 125 Sinnis Apache completd the Mongol rally, arguably the world's toughest motorsports event.

Anywho, back on topic, are there any used Kymco People GTi300 scooters about?
That would be your best option imo.

Stuck record mode on: Tuning up a PCX is a total waste of time and effort, far easier to just buy a faster scooter.

Isn't that true of any vehicle? It's always easier to buy a better vehicle. Just that performance mods should probably be left to the mechanically competent.

Despite the convenience of an underseat storage, I probably won't go back to scooters, especially large scooters.

As I said, I probably pissed off the only scooter shop on the island that works on stuff like this, hence why the jump to motos to open up my options.

I haven't heard any negative comments on the TU250X, so I'd probably shoot for that one. Cruisers generally seem to be avoided like the plague unless it's a Harley by thieves, so I figure the cute little thing wouldn't even deserve a glance for prying eyes.

Not meaning to be a picky SOB here, just a friendly FYI. A bike like a TU250 would generally be referred to as a "standard" not a "cruiser". Another example of a standard bike would be a Triumph Bonneville, etc. Cruisers are more laid back, often with forward controls, etc.

Anyway, just throwing that out there, I get what you are saying, and you're right. A small standard bike would probably be less of a theft target in your environment than a scooter.

[Valiant]

Ah. Would standard be any 250 bike?

One thing I did notice was the hp and speed difference between the TU250X and the CBR250R. Pretty interesting considering they both have 250cc displacement, but the CBR gets 20+hp and goes up to 85 mph whereas the Suzuki gets 16hp and a top speed of 75 mph.

Now I'll grant you that 75 mph is actually plenty and I probably couldn't give a damn if it still handles itself at high speeds(mostly post 60 mph acceleration) better than my modded PCX... but it does give me a bit of pause.

On the other hand, I could probably rest assured that nobody would want to swipe the thing because they wanted to go for a joyride.

[gn2]

the CBR is a modern liquid cooled four valve job, the TU engine was developed in the late 70s and hasn't seen much development since.
"standard" "cruiser" "sports" etc are just labels and mean different things to different people but by and large, a bike is a bike is a bike.

The TU makes sense as a practical commuter, if you want adrenaline fuelled fun, look elsewhere.

Is the CB500F available there?
You can get a new one of those cheaper than a Forza 300 here in the UK.

[Valiant]

Yes, we have that one. I honestly wouldn't go for it though if price is the selling point. The Honda/Ducati/Yamaha dealer here are more of a ripoff than the Suzuki dealer, so I'd much rather have a pick from their selection.

I am curious if that particular styling is more of an upright position than your typical sportbikes.

Because this one has me chomping at the bit:


I AM a little worried about the length though. IIRC, the PCX has an Overall Length of 75", and that GW250Z is 84.4".

Still, I'm hoping the 400lbs weight of it is still liftable to some extent.

[kcpcx]

There aren't hard and fast rules as to m/c categories. At least in the U.S., when you say cruiser you'll get people thinking laid back Harley style bikes with higher bars, and when you say standard you'll have people assuming you mean a more upright riding style, feet under your butt not stretched out forward, fairly upright bars. This article is generally pretty accurate, but nothing is carved in stone of course.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Types_of_motorcycles

Yes, we get the CB300F and 500F, both would be very good choices for Valiant in my opinion.

They are also offered in "R" versions, i.e. lower bars, more forward-leaning riding position. Personally, I prefer the F series. 500X is here, 300X probably coming, but higher seat height probably rules them out in this case.

Since we're on Hondas, the CRF250L would probably be worth consideration as a good all-round Hawaii bike, but maybe too tall. I don't know if they make lowering links or kit for those.

TU isn't a bad bike, but I'd consider it a pretty milquetoast choice. Just my opinion having checked them out, but I've never ridden one.

I really like the looks of the Yamaha SR400. Beautiful. They are pretty pricey, though, and kick start only if that matters to you.

The GW250Z, by the way, is a bit cheaper than the TU250X if you're looking at Suzuki. More upright for sure, than a typical sport bike.

I still think a strong case could be made that a DR200SE would be an ideal Hawaii bike. Seat height is pretty low from what I recall in contrast to many bikes of it's ilk.

By the way, resale value is something to consider although not an overriding concern. For instance, I think if you decided to sell a used CB300F or 500F, you'd have a lot more interest and command a better price than if you were selling a used GW250 or TU250. So the initial price premium, if any, would likely be recouped on the back end to a large extent.

EDIT: Note how much lighter the CB300F is compared to the GW. 50 pounds, roughly. That's a fairly big difference.

[kcpcx]

Wanted to add this but could no longer edit. DR200SE is only 278 pounds.


Never mind, though. Get an SR400 so I can live vicariously through you. I think they are gorgeous. I've seen them on Cycle Trader in the $4k to $4500 range, new.

[Valiant]

For some inexplicable reason I have a passionate hatred for dualsports. Can't explain it, but it just looks fugly to me.

The CB300F looks like it might be a winner for me. Same MSRP, 2 inches shorter, and a little more punch to it. Might lose out $400-$500 from buying from a stealership, but I guess I can admit that I would at least be getting something for the money.

[gn2]

Still, I'm hoping the 400lbs weight of it is still liftable to some extent.

Do you mean to lift the rear to get the bike into that parking space?
You should be able to lift the rear wheel of any 250-500 twin or single off the deck easily enough.

[Valiant]

My PCX must be a pig then because it's a PITA to move. Wasn't pretty the last time I dropped it on the road either.

[fish]

My son has the CB500, the X version. You would never get it out of that parking space, if you could get it in.
The $3999 CB300F is a whole lot of bike for the $$, and much lighter.
Regarding these upright bikes ...... insurance is much cheaper on upright handlebar bikes vs the lay down clip on bar riding position.....the race position street bike gets in more wrecks..ins. man says it is because they are harder to control. Whatever , he is going by crash statistics....
These F and X upright style bikes are becoming very popular. Would have good resale.
I think you first need to get an honest estimate on the value of your PCX....... I'm thinking your $2500 might be several hundred too high due to your non HONDA engine mods.
Yeah, if they are stealing scooters, buy a bike......hard to feel sorry for a guy living in Hawaii!!!
Insure it well, buy a beater?
Fish