Re: Front suspension upgrade
Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:14 pm
Here are pictures. The package was labeled '15 PCX. Sure hope that is correct! My PD valves arrived today and appear to be correct at 23.8MM.
Your predominant source of information for the Honda PCX, Forza and SH! Now featuring an ADV150 subforum!
https://hondapcx.org/
tomtomclub2005 wrote:Constant spring rates is what Race tech (inventors of emulators) are recommending once you install the valves. However that is for motorbikes with proper forks, can get away with it in a scooter with short forks and limited travel? I doubt it...
Where can we find made to measure springs in Europe for a reasonable price? I have long been wondering to change the springs on my YSS rear shocks which are really only comfortable with two up (L size) , otherwise too hard.
tomtomclub2005 wrote:Right- i was quoted by YSS Europe € 90,75 + shipping for a set of springs for rear shocks. I wanted 46-12-22-200 springs but they only have 10-15. It's almost the price of a new set of shocks!
If you make some, maybe we can organise a group buy?
I don't know why the V4 has less front travel. In theory if it still uses the same 33mm stanchion diameter - swapping in a set of older damping rods could get you to 100mm travel.Givestrong wrote:I got the new model of PCX V4 (2018) and the fork seems to be more harsh, i feel more the impacts than with my previous V3. I noticed than the travel is slightly inferior on the new (93mm vs 100mm)
I plan to modify my fork to have better performance, i found a complete kit for the 2018 model on a Thai site (Bikerbitz)
https://bikerzbits.com/honda-pcx-150-20 ... 1-017.html
I think the stanchion diameter is 31mm on the PCX, i need to check.Oyabun wrote:
I don't know why the V4 has less front travel. In theory if it still uses the same 33mm stanchion diameter - swapping in a set of older damping rods could get you to 100mm travel.
My assumption is that the front suspension travel was limited because the rear link was moved, thus the rear of the bike rides lower and in order to balance the turn in- they have lowered the front too - but it is just speculation.
Regarding the kit.
If it is indeed the one shown on the picture then the spring is a much less radical than the YSS above. On the other hand I'd definitely check the new PCX's fork stanchions. Unfortunately I have no access to the new parts fisches yet to do so. At least the stanchions of older models I've seen so far had a circlip type of cap, not a thread-on cap - so either the picture is not correct, or part of the kit is not usable. 121EUR is definitely good price for springs, emulators and a cap if it is really usable.
In case you have the possibility to do some measurements on your new bike's components I would be very happy to see them here.
Apparently my mistake. The PCX indeed has 31mm stanchions. I mixed it up with the Forza125, which is 33.Givestrong wrote: I think the stanchion diameter is 31mm on the PCX, i need to check.
I've seen the reduction of travel in the specs of the model, not tested yet.
On the V4, i confirm you it's still a circlip on the top of the stanchion.
I've seen on a document of YSS than they make top caps with or without threads depending of the model.
There is a cut drawing where that top cap is mounted using the circlip.
Here is the link (it's a pdf) : https://www.yss.co.th/downloads/SPEC_TA ... DE_KIT.pdf
I was also looking for the specs of that spring in our email conversation from a few years ago as I did remember that picture.tomtomclub2005 wrote:FYI 4 years ago i had gotten some harder springs from the german PCX forum. They were sent in from Thailand. Unfortunately at the time i just measured length (which was -5mm from stock LED springs) and now i can't access them anymore since my pcx was stolen. They came in an Honda slip Packaging but P/N was removed. So I'm pretty sure there are harder Honda springs compatible parts but god knows what P/N, only a dealer might know!
In the image below top springs are LED stock, bottom ones the harder new one.
Absolutely helps! The 15W Ipone I purchased is 60.2 at 40C so it's going back for another brand. No preload caps will be installed.Oyabun wrote:Hi Scott,
That's not even that bad. 132-97 = 35mm (just a sidenote, on my bike I measure 135mm from yoke to the wiper seal when I pull down the fork legs. its is due the top out spring, so in fact we cannot use the total travel, the last few mms are taken by the top out spring which helps to avoid banging the forks on total extension)
Mine had 44mm rider sag out of ~92 usable travel on the stock springs when I measured. I might be a bit heavier, Like to sit more tho the front and push the front fork more than usual as a bad residual habit from my racing times.
I would use the following setup.
-No preload, just as you have from the installation. If you're installing the preload caps, you can dial it in later, but even not, the new springs should be fine with that amount of sag you have.
-1,5 turns from touching on the emulators It's not ease to exactly set up preload on the emulators, but don't use more than 2 turns.
-Set oil level to 80mm from the top. - Normal level of fluid in forks is 75mm measured from the top of the collapsed stanchion. With such a hard secondary spring rate, I'd risk to go down to 80mm. Make sure that you bleed the forks from air before you set the final level.
- use 15w oil read below
This latest needs a bit longer explanation. 5w-10w-15w-and 20w designation is just the ballpark. Different brands have different characteristics. Real viscosity is measured in sct, or mm2/sec. I normally use AGIP/eni fork oils, as I have access to them, but you feel free to use anything you have access to in Canada.
Here's an example http://www.oliehandel.nl/files/7/manual ... %207.5.pdf
Typical information you have to look for:
- Viscosity @40degC and @100degC - between these the fork oils are more or less linear.
- Viscosity index explains how consistent their viscosity is between these two temperature points- the higher the better.
- Given your location you might be interested in pour point what is the last temperature when they can be still poured.
A few things to consider. Heavier oils warm up more during use (higher pumping losses converted to heat) and tend to degrade faster. Also the heavier the fork oil is, the bigger the difference between cold and hot fluid temperatures - so it will provide less consistent damping. This is why super high class damping parts (eg. Ohlins and works pro racer stuff from Showa and Kayaba) use very thin oils and move a lot of fluid. Our bike is no racebike, so we're less concerned, but it needs to be mentioned - bigger is not always better. Moreover I don't know what is the lowest temperature you're planning to ride, but higher viscosity oils become fairly thick at lower temperatures.
Therefore I suggest to you to use 15w oil with a @40 viscosity above 60 sct - I'd say ideally around 70-75. The PCX needs so minimal amount of fork oil that I'd buy the best quality available and save the remaining amount for the next fork oil change. Also many riders never touch their forks, but these fluids deteriorate with use. It worths to refresh them every now and then like any operating fluid in the system.
Hope it helps.