Tale of woe and some help needed please

[spaglemon]

Where to start ?

Having looked at a few Pcx 125 scooters for my wife who struggles now with her big bike and wanted something for nipping around locally we came across a nice low mileage one owner one, I'm fairly competent mechanically (now seriously doubting this though) and have always worked on and serviced my bikes. The pcx in question is a 2012 esp model with 2800miles on it, the owner purchased it new and used it daily for a short commute, the bike hadn't been neglected but hadn't exactly been looked after either, all plastics were in excellent condition and it was only some of the more exposed areas underneath that were weathered but I knew they'd clean up well and I was looking to get some bits powdercoated anyway.

Here's where I made a mistake, the centre stand was very corroded, the owner stated that he never used it and the bike had been sitting for some time as he'd bought a car to get to and from work, I knew the centre stand mounts were a possible issue and I thought I'd checked them but I didn't check them well enough, it was quite cruddy underneath which was hiding a botched repair, a repair I knew nothing about until we got the bike home and I ttried to remove the centre stand to lubricate it, as I was trying to knock the centre stand pin through I became aware of an oil leak from underneath the bike and once I cleaned it all up to inspect the area (which I should have done prior to buying the bike) I realised that I'd disturbed the repair and cracked the welded fix !

I stripped the bike down, removed the engine and cleaned it as best as I could and found a blacksmith locally willing to tig weld it again with a view of saving for a replacement crankcase to permanently fix it, the weld wasn't entirely successful, I've tried some epoxy which is a real bodge I know but it was only ever going to be a temporary fix but that hasn't worked 100% either.

So I'm now pricing parts to do the job properly after checking out second hand engine prices and ruling that option out.

Has anyone on here ever had to split one of these engines before ?

I have the part number for the left crankcase for my engine number but I'm unsure what other parts will be needed to complete the job ? I don't want to start until I have all the parts needed, I'm assuming some gaskets will be required ? although there appears to be only sealant between the two crankcase halfs ? I assume I'll need to replace the head gasket ?

Would anyone who has a service manual be kind enough to have a look and see what parts are recommended for replacement while carrying out this job.

I do intend to purchase a manual before starting as I'll need one for torques, etc but would like to start trying to get parts together as soon as I'm able.

Please feel free to flame me, believe me I couldn't feel like a bigger idiot than I already do right now, I feel especially bad for my wife though, I've never been caught out like this before when buying bikes.

Anyone going to view a bike please take a toothbrush and can of WD40 with you and thoroughly inspect the centre stand mounts on the bottom of the crankcase.


Thanks

[gn2]

Have a chat with Honda, even though my PCX was out of warranty when a stand mount broke they offered me all the parts free as a "goodwill" gesture.

If that does not bear fruit, I would suggest Belzona molecular metal, once upon a time I succesfully repaired a hole in a crankcase with it when the oil pressure switch screw was torn out in a crash.
Not only did it fix the hole but I was able to drill and tap a thread in it and re-insert the oil pressure switch.
Truly amazing stuff.

[spaglemon]

Have a chat with Honda, even though my PCX was out of warranty when a stand mount broke they offered me all the parts free as a "goodwill" gesture.

If that does not bear fruit, I would suggest Belzona molecular metal, once upon a time I succesfully repaired a hole in a crankcase with it when the oil pressure switch screw was torn out in a crash.
Not only did it fix the hole but I was able to drill and tap a thread in it and re-insert the oil pressure switch.
Truly amazing stuff.

Was it Honda Uk or your local Honda dealer that you approached ?

Did they offer you the parts free as long as you paid Honda technicians labour charges to fit the parts ?
As I'm not the original owner and a repair has been attempted I doubt they'd be very interested but like you say worth a try ?

Thanks

[spaglemon]

Btw, where's the cheapest place to buy a service manual for the 125 ?

Cheers

[gn2]

Was it Honda Uk or your local Honda dealer that you approached ?

Did they offer you the parts free as long as you paid Honda technicians labour charges to fit the parts ?

It was the local dealer who got in touch with Honda UK.
Fortunately when mine went it didn't cause any leaks.
As far as I remember the initial offer would have involved me paying for the labour (estimated at £700) but I didn't chase it up to see if I could persuade Honda to just send me the parts direct.
Couldn't be arsed with the hassle as I knew I would be getting rid fairly soon after it happened.

Another option would be to try to return it for a refund from the seller.

[scudder]

I second Gn2 on the Belzona, it works and is made for the job. http://www.belzona.co.uk/en/products/1000/1111.aspx

[waspmike]

I concur on the Belzona stuff

Applications for Belzona 1111 (Super Metal) include:
Repair of cracks and holes on engine and pump casings, pipes, tanks and other equipment

My father used it one time to re-secure a cylinder head stud in a bus. The threads in the block were stripped. He stuck some Belzona down the hole in the block. Not having a long enough drill he glued a drill to the end of a steel rod with Belzona and drilled out the hole, then retaped the threads with a tap glued to another rod. Then re-installed a new stud.

In the US stuff like JBWeld is similar.

[you you]

Good tip, I need something like this for a bike I'm working on. Based in the centre of the universe too

[spaglemon]

Thanks for the heads up, that stuff looks impressive but I'd be cheaper with a new crankcase lol

Cheers

[waspmike]

You can find the part numbers on here:

http://www.cheapcycleparts.com/oemparts ... 02e4/stand

[gn2]

I'd be cheaper with a new crankcase

Unlikely, perhaps you haven't seen the price of the bits you'll need yet?
A used motor from eBay will begin to look more attractive fairly soon I reckon.....

[Bash On!]

I'd have a chat with the former owner.

Feel for you; we've probably all been there (several times for me).

[you you]

I'd have a chat with the former owner.

Feel for you; we've probably all been there (several times for me).

God yes. Who hasn't bought anything that they haven't regretted.

Except Captain P

[Alibally]

Btw, where's the cheapest place to buy a service manual for the 125 ?

Cheers

Where are you based about? I know a couple of good engineering works that may be able to repair the crankcase. They're in the Edinburgh area though.

[Simon0867]

I've used Mark 1 Motorcycles in Edinburgh before with a previous scoot. Friendly, fast and reasonably priced.

[spaglemon]

Thanks, got it tig welded at a blacksmiths in Perth which has been 95% successful, currently pricing parts to do the job properly as the welding was only ever going to be a temporary fix, will replace the crankcase over the winter once I have all the parts, tools and service manual together.

Thanks

[JMAC]

Hi, Thought I could shed some light on your query. I have just stripped down two PCX engines and split the crankcases to swap over the crankshaft with bearings from a high mileage one (23,000 plus miles} to be replaced by a 4000 mile crankshaft. It is not too difficult a job, but I would definitely advise on buying the service manual as you would be lost without one. I bought one from the USA. It is a big manual, but covers everything you will need to know for a job of this size. It cost me around £35 including shipping.
One of the biggest jobs is removing all the plastic fairing , without damage, as they need to be removed in a particular order. You don't need to remove some of the front, but I would advise on taking as much as possible off the rear as it makes the job easier. For me this was the longest part of the job.
Next, you need to get the engine out. There is a good topic here http://www.hondapcx.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2939 which covers most of the top end removal stuff. The same author has also provided a great post here http://hondapcx.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3224&view=next which shows how to remove the fairings you need to remove.

Then you need to remove the centre stand, then the cooling fan , flywheel (flywheel puller required} stator, oil pump driven gear and timing chain. You need to remove the variator ( holding tool required or impact driver) to remove the big nut. I used the holding tool to also remove the clutch big nut. Next after removing all the bolts the smaller half of the crankcase lifts off to reveal the crankshaft, with bearing, stuck on the left hand crankcase. I put the big nut on the end and gave it a hard tap and the crankshaft with piston with rings, etc popped clean out with the bearing attached. As the newer crankshaft came out with both bearing attached , this can go straight into the older engine. However when I am at this level of strip down, I am planning on replacing all the other bearings and oil seals in the engine when I start the rebuild next week. I'm planning to do a photo record which I intend to post on this forum. It took me about three hours to get the plastic off and engine out, and another two to three hours stripping the engine down to the crankshaft level. I would advise checking the bearings in the final drive area, when you are at this stage and also replacing any dodgy looking oil seals. You will also need new gaskets, etc. The crankcase halves don't have a gasket , only a silicon seal . I bought a set for the entire engine for £30, but this does not include some of the oil seals.

Is your engine a top mounted engine or a bottom mounted engine ? I will have both crankcase sides up for sale, but they are for a bottom mounted engine. I would be looking for around about £40 for the right hand side and £50 for the left hand side. This is from the scooter which has done only 4000 miles. For the quickest and easiest repair, I would look for a low mileage complete engine . I see a couple for sale for around £200 - £300. Remember you are supposed to notify the DVLA to record any engine change as the engine number is recorded on the V5 document. I suppose this would also be a requirement if you are changine the left hand crankcase , as this has the engine number on it.

Hope this helps.

[spaglemon]

Thank you very much for the info, really appreciated, I've already had all the plastics off and bottom mounted engine out to temporarily repair it, all back together and holding well for now but I intend to replace the left side crankcase over the winter and due to all the hassle I've had up to now I'll only be using brand new parts.
It's a very low mileage bike but I was intending on replacing all the bearings and obviously gaskets, cheers for the heads up on the oil seals and flywheel puller though.
A manual will be my first purchase.

Cheers