Oil Grade and Viscosity, Which one best?

[doletotodole]

Mobil 1, 10W-30, exactly the recommended grade.
Another Mobil 1, 0W-40, looks very stout and tough.

My connundrum: the 40, may provide protection for tough driving, but may drag my PCX down? the 30 may harm the engine during non-stop long journey?

What do you use?
Any tried and proven case for these oils?

[Jge64]

You are way overthinking it. In normal climates, either will work fine.

[iceman]

Normal 10w30 / 10w40 has a low temp working point of about -25 whilst 0w oils are good to about -35 - for most countries the PCX works fine on 10w30 from just below zero to mid summer.

[Eiron]

Hi doletotodole,

When do you leave for your travels? And how long will this journey last?

As you already know, I'm a huge fan of Mobil 1 0W-40.

Before you can pick an oil, you need to decide what your goals are. For the most part, it comes down to either better fuel economy, or better engine protection. (I'm going to ignore secondary desires right now, such as availability and cost.) First, let's look at some of the features of oils, in general.

The primary function of oil is to keep your engine's moving parts from contacting one another. The absolute best method for doing this is to keep a film of oil covering everything. That's where viscosity, cling, and shear stability come into play. The next method for protecting against contact is adding compounds to create a micro-thin barrier. If your oil film gets too thin, these additives provide extra protection against metal-to-metal contact. These are compounds such as ZDDP and MoS2, and are your "last defense" against contact. After protection, the mix of additives will also help keep the dirt and combustion byproducts suspended in the oil, rather than allowing them to create layers of gunk on your engine's parts. These are the detergents/dispersants and acid-countering compounds.

Oil manufacturers pay to have their oils tested to different standards. All of the tests are expensive, so not every oil is tested to every standard. The standards that provide the most information (to you & me looking at the bottle on the store shelf) are the European ACEA standards. From the 2016 ACEA Oil Sequence Standards: "The CLASS indicates oil intended for a general type of engines: A/B = Gasoline and Light Duty Diesel Engines," and "The CATEGORY [numbers 1 to 5] indicates oils for different purposes or applications within that general class, related to some aspect or aspects of the performance level of the oil." So, with that description, here are the certifications we would care about:
A1/B1 Category is removed with these Oil Sequences.
A3/B3 Stable, stay-in-grade Engine Oil intended for use in Passenger Car & Light Duty Van Gasoline & Diesel Engines with extended drain intervals where specified by the Engine Manufacturer, and for severe operating conditions as defined by the Engine Manufacturer.
A3/B4 Stable, stay-in-grade Engine Oil intended for use at extended Drain Intervals in Passenger Car & Light Duty Van Gasoline & DI Diesel Engines, but also suitable for applications described under A3/B3.
A5/B5 Stable, stay-in-grade Engine Oil intended for use at extended Drain Intervals in Passenger Car & Light Duty Van Gasoline & Diesel Engines designed to be capable of using Low Viscosity Oils with HTHS Viscosity of 2.9 to 3.5 mPa-s. These Oils are unsuitable for use in certain Engines - consult vehicle-OEM’s owner’s manual/handbook in case of doubt.
[Background info: A5/B5 replaced the basic A1/B1 Class by adding "for use at extended drain intervals"]

So, a quick summary would be:
A3/B3/B4 for engine protection
A5/B5 for fuel economy

Now, looking at the design of the PCX engine, we know that it's a high-rev, extremely fuel efficient design. Honda has put a lot of engineering into making more power and keeping high fuel efficiency. This puts a lot of stress on the oil's ability to retain its viscosity (its High Temperature / High Shear (HT/HS) rating). Also, like several other vehicle manufacturers, this has unfortunately created a higher occurrence of combustion deposits and ring sticking resulting in high oil consumption in many of Honda's vehicles. All of the Mobil 1 oils do a great job of reducing deposits. The A3/B3/B4 oils have more robust additive packages and better viscosity retention. Mobil 1 (here in the US) also offers both a 10W-30 "High Mileage" and a 10W-40 "High Mileage" that meet ACEA A3/B3/B4 standards.

Matching the oil design to the engine design, I would always choose an A3/B3/B4 oil. When you add in your planned travels across extreme environments, it becomes even more critical to consider a more durable and robust engine oil.

Our next discussion will be on viscosity grades.

[gn2]

Only accept slippery oil, the sticky stuff is no good.

[JohnL]

I alway look for one with "Oil" on the label.

[chicaboo]

[Alibally]

Stick to the recommended. That's my advice.

[alx123]

I saw this topic in some forum 10 years ago, and amazingly it is still a topic today.

I already gave up reading about oils and decided that any oil within the right recommended viscosity will be okay.

As long as it lubricates the inside of my engine, it'll work. lol

[doletotodole]

Hi doletotodole,

When do you leave for your travels? And how long will this journey last?

As you already know, I'm a huge fan of Mobil 1 0W-40.

Before you can pick an oil, you need to decide what your goals are. For the most part, it comes down to either better fuel economy, or better engine protection. (I'm going to ignore secondary desires right now, such as availability and cost.) First, let's look at some of the features of oils, in general.

The primary function of oil is to keep your engine's moving parts from contacting one another. The absolute best method for doing this is to keep a film of oil covering everything. That's where viscosity, cling, and shear stability come into play. The next method for protecting against contact is adding compounds to create a micro-thin barrier. If your oil film gets too thin, these additives provide extra protection against metal-to-metal contact. These are compounds such as ZDDP and MoS2, and are your "last defense" against contact. After protection, the mix of additives will also help keep the dirt and combustion byproducts suspended in the oil, rather than allowing them to create layers of gunk on your engine's parts. These are the detergents/dispersants and acid-countering compounds.

Oil manufacturers pay to have their oils tested to different standards. All of the tests are expensive, so not every oil is tested to every standard. The standards that provide the most information (to you & me looking at the bottle on the store shelf) are the European ACEA standards. From the 2016 ACEA Oil Sequence Standards: "The CLASS indicates oil intended for a general type of engines: A/B = Gasoline and Light Duty Diesel Engines," and "The CATEGORY [numbers 1 to 5] indicates oils for different purposes or applications within that general class, related to some aspect or aspects of the performance level of the oil." So, with that description, here are the certifications we would care about:
A1/B1 Category is removed with these Oil Sequences.
A3/B3 Stable, stay-in-grade Engine Oil intended for use in Passenger Car & Light Duty Van Gasoline & Diesel Engines with extended drain intervals where specified by the Engine Manufacturer, and for severe operating conditions as defined by the Engine Manufacturer.
A3/B4 Stable, stay-in-grade Engine Oil intended for use at extended Drain Intervals in Passenger Car & Light Duty Van Gasoline & DI Diesel Engines, but also suitable for applications described under A3/B3.
A5/B5 Stable, stay-in-grade Engine Oil intended for use at extended Drain Intervals in Passenger Car & Light Duty Van Gasoline & Diesel Engines designed to be capable of using Low Viscosity Oils with HTHS Viscosity of 2.9 to 3.5 mPa-s. These Oils are unsuitable for use in certain Engines - consult vehicle-OEM’s owner’s manual/handbook in case of doubt.
[Background info: A5/B5 replaced the basic A1/B1 Class by adding "for use at extended drain intervals"]

So, a quick summary would be:
A3/B3/B4 for engine protection
A5/B5 for fuel economy

Now, looking at the design of the PCX engine, we know that it's a high-rev, extremely fuel efficient design. Honda has put a lot of engineering into making more power and keeping high fuel efficiency. This puts a lot of stress on the oil's ability to retain its viscosity (its High Temperature / High Shear (HT/HS) rating). Also, like several other vehicle manufacturers, this has unfortunately created a higher occurrence of combustion deposits and ring sticking resulting in high oil consumption in many of Honda's vehicles. All of the Mobil 1 oils do a great job of reducing deposits. The A3/B3/B4 oils have more robust additive packages and better viscosity retention. Mobil 1 (here in the US) also offers both a 10W-30 "High Mileage" and a 10W-40 "High Mileage" that meet ACEA A3/B3/B4 standards.

Matching the oil design to the engine design, I would always choose an A3/B3/B4 oil. When you add in your planned travels across extreme environments, it becomes even more critical to consider a more durable and robust engine oil.

Our next discussion will be on viscosity grades.

OK, sir, I guess I will try the 40 grade, see what happnens.

I actually have with me now, 2 bottle of Motul scooter oil 5W-40, the stickiness is quaite higher than the Mobil 1 0W-40, I actually planning to chuck it off to a bin because it is so so sticky comparing with the recommended 30. BTW, the Motul scooter oil is very popular here with small scooter riders.

[Eiron]

OK, sir, I guess I will try the 40 grade, see what happnens.

I actually have with me now, 2 bottle of Motul scooter oil 5W-40, the stickiness is quaite higher than the Mobil 1 0W-40, I actually planning to chuck it off to a bin because it is so so sticky comparing with the recommended 30. BTW, the Motul scooter oil is very popular here with small scooter riders.

Wait!! Don't toss it! That's a good full syn oil for your scoot!

Viscosity ranges in oil can be a little confusing, but that 5W-40 range is going to be better than 10W-30 in both cold weather and hot weather. Use it!

(Right now my PCX has a mix of Mobil 1 15W-50 and Mobil 1 10W-40 High Mileage in it.)

[Eiron]

So, here's a little bit of explanation regarding multi-vis oil weights.

Let's use 10W-30 as an example. The rating only means that the oil flows like a frozen 10 wt when it's really cold (minus 20°F) instead of a frozen 30 wt (which would be thicker than you'd like at minus 20°F) & then behaves like any 30 wt would when it's hot (210°F & hotter). The W number refers to the cold temp the oil is intended to start up in, but is confusingly listed in operating temp viscosity units. They're both labeled on the same temp scale, but they're actually measured at two different temps.

The cold rating (xW- end of things) should be viewed as being completely separate from the hot rating (the 30, 40 or 50 wt part) & is simply a labeling convenience to help you pick an effective oil for your start-up climate. The hot rating is where you'll get all your operating temperature protection, & should be chosen based on the engine's design & protection needs. Separate these two numbers in your mind!

Done that? OK, good! Now consider this: ANY motor oil will be thicker below 100°F than ANY OTHER motor oil will be above 210°F!! What does THAT really mean? It means the "thinnest" 0W-20 will be thicker for all of your cold starts than the "thickest" 15W-50 will be once the engine's warmed up to operating temperature!

There's not nearly as much difference between hot viscosities of different oils as there is between the cold & hot viscosities of whichever oil you decide to use. Where you see the benefit is in the ability of a hot oil to remain in a film covering your engine's parts. A thin film of oil physically separates moving parts & is your best protection from the friction created when the parts slide against each other. Friction generates heat & wear. We want to eliminate both. Syn oils maintain film strength better than conventional oils. Heavier oils maintain film strength better than thinner oils. Choose an oil that fits your level of comfort.

[you you]

So, here's a little bit of explanation regarding multi-vis oil weights.

Let's use 10W-30 as an example. The rating only means that the oil flows like a frozen 10 wt when it's really cold (minus 20°F) instead of a frozen 30 wt (which would be thicker than you'd like at minus 20°F) & then behaves like any 30 wt would when it's hot (210°F & hotter). The W number refers to the cold temp the oil is intended to start up in, but is confusingly listed in operating temp viscosity units. They're both labeled on the same temp scale, but they're actually measured at two different temps.

The cold rating (xW- end of things) should be viewed as being completely separate from the hot rating (the 30, 40 or 50 wt part) & is simply a labeling convenience to help you pick an effective oil for your start-up climate. The hot rating is where you'll get all your operating temperature protection, & should be chosen based on the engine's design & protection needs. Separate these two numbers in your mind!

Done that? OK, good! Now consider this: ANY motor oil will be thicker below 100°F than ANY OTHER motor oil will be above 210°F!! What does THAT really mean? It means the "thinnest" 0W-20 will be thicker for all of your cold starts than the "thickest" 15W-50 will be once the engine's warmed up to operating temperature!

There's not nearly as much difference between hot viscosities of different oils as there is between the cold & hot viscosities of whichever oil you decide to use. Where you see the benefit is in the ability of a hot oil to remain in a film covering your engine's parts. A thin film of oil physically separates moving parts & is your best protection from the friction created when the parts slide against each other. Friction generates heat & wear. We want to eliminate both. Syn oils maintain film strength better than conventional oils. Heavier oils maintain film strength better than thinner oils. Choose an oil that fits your level of comfort.

I can't find my level of comfort in the manual.

What to do, what to do?

[PCX150Rider]

Found this interesting page. . .may be controversial but worth a look. . .topic is about breaking in a new engine.

http://mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

Figured while we were discussing oil it would add more depth to the thread.

[doletotodole]

So, here's a little bit of explanation regarding multi-vis oil weights.

Let's use 10W-30 as an example. The rating only means that the oil flows like a frozen 10 wt when it's really cold (minus 20°F) instead of a frozen 30 wt (which would be thicker than you'd like at minus 20°F) & then behaves like any 30 wt would when it's hot (210°F & hotter). The W number refers to the cold temp the oil is intended to start up in, but is confusingly listed in operating temp viscosity units. They're both labeled on the same temp scale, but they're actually measured at two different temps.

The cold rating (xW- end of things) should be viewed as being completely separate from the hot rating (the 30, 40 or 50 wt part) & is simply a labeling convenience to help you pick an effective oil for your start-up climate. The hot rating is where you'll get all your operating temperature protection, & should be chosen based on the engine's design & protection needs. Separate these two numbers in your mind!

Done that? OK, good! Now consider this: ANY motor oil will be thicker below 100°F than ANY OTHER motor oil will be above 210°F!! What does THAT really mean? It means the "thinnest" 0W-20 will be thicker for all of your cold starts than the "thickest" 15W-50 will be once the engine's warmed up to operating temperature!

There's not nearly as much difference between hot viscosities of different oils as there is between the cold & hot viscosities of whichever oil you decide to use. Where you see the benefit is in the ability of a hot oil to remain in a film covering your engine's parts. A thin film of oil physically separates moving parts & is your best protection from the friction created when the parts slide against each other. Friction generates heat & wear. We want to eliminate both. Syn oils maintain film strength better than conventional oils. Heavier oils maintain film strength better than thinner oils. Choose an oil that fits your level of comfort.

Considering my habit of riding is 50/50 city and long tour, I will go for 40. Thanks.

[Rickjds]

I used Dino oil for my first oil change and noticed my MPG decreased. It was 10w-40 as 10-w30 is hard to find where I live.

[iceman]

Found this interesting page. . .may be controversial but worth a look. . .topic is about breaking in a new engine.
http://mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
Figured while we were discussing oil it would add more depth to the thread.

That too has been covered many times in the forum - still get people agreeing or disagreeing though

[pepito86]

And for somebody like me, who does not know anything about scooters, the question still has no answer...

[you you]

And for somebody like me, who does not know anything about scooters, the question still has no answer...

It might not on here but it does in the bikes manual. Try that.

[Old Grinner]

When I had my 2017 PCX 150 I used Pro Honda HP4M 10w40 for the engine and the Pro Honda HP4M 10w30 for the final drive. It contains molybdenum. I think it was SJ rated.

It may be a little pricey compared to other similar oils but since the PCX needed so little of it I splurged.

Whatever you do get the correct amount added and don't overfill. I forget the exact capacity but 1 Qt. of the 10w40 will be more than enough for an engine oil change and 1 Qt. of the 10w30 will be enough for several final drive oil changes.

Do check your PCX Owners Manual though for the recommended specifications and capacities just to be sure. . ..