The Honda PCX / Forza / ADV150 / SH Forums

khaosaming wrote:Just one more thing...

Strictly speaking the City Grip would be illegal to use in Finland from December to February when winter tyres are mandatory. The law in Finland requires that a motorcycle has rugged tyres for winter use (what ever that is). I reckon it means a blocky texture with big grooves, like an off-road tyre.

I know that basically the thread is about riding in the UK. We are an international community of scooterists, so a slight deviation to add some (ir?)relevant information in other countries should be ok.

My guess is that the regulations in Finland are similar to those in Austria and Germany then. In a nutshell, if the tyre doesn't show the snowflake and M+S symbol, it is not certified for use in winter. A winter tyre usually has more off road style profile, however what mostly differentiates it is the much softer compound and I've seen some of them optimised not for use in snow, but in wet and cold weather with a much more uniform design. There are a lot of differences in tyre design, sometimes the same winter tyre model has different sub-models e.g. one for snow and another one for wet. Every tyre is a compromise in its abilities.

It is relevant for the UK in so far as tyre manufacturers develop winter tyres according to those regulations, if we want them here in Britain, we will get those tyres. Many people here still do not understand the enormous benefits winter tyres can give you even if it doesn't snow, partly because many people do not understand anything about tyres at all.

gn2 wrote:Yep, the op was specifically looking for information about riding in the UK.
Winter road conditions here are very different to Scandinavia.

Strictly speaking, yes. However the many years I spent in Britain have taught me that it gets cold enough and that snow doesn't only fall in the alps. It is frankly ridiculous all the fuzz that this place goes through for snowfall others wouldn't even give a thing about, offices closing, trains stopping, flights cancelled for three snowflakes on the tarmac? That is not necessary.

Ok, now I am afraid to have derailed this for good; please keep on track :-D

djcat wrote:it is safe to use winter tyres throughout summer

The only disadvantage to running winter tires all year around is that they will wear out very quickly in summer temps. But I am going to get some winters for my PCX if shipping from the UK doesn't cost too much. Just for fun! to blow peoples minds. People in the USA are not used to seeing scooters in use and especially not in winter freezing temps.

djcat wrote:However the many years I spent in Britain have taught me that it gets cold enough and that snow doesn't only fall in the alps. It is frankly ridiculous all the fuzz that this place goes through for snowfall others wouldn't even give a thing about, offices closing, trains stopping, flights cancelled for three snowflakes on the tarmac? That is not necessary.

Ok, now I am afraid to have derailed this for good; please keep on track :-D

Not off topic at all, it is precisely the same reason why there's no point fitting winter tyres to a scooter in the UK.
Places which regularly have big snowfalls invest in the infrastructure to deal with it effectively.
Here in the UK big snowfalls are very rare so it does not make economic sense to invest in the infrastructure to deal with it.

gn2 wrote:

you you wrote:What offence would that be?

Regulation 27 Construction and Use Regs 1986

Any policeman trying to use that for winter scooter tyres would be laughed out of the force and you know it.

gn2 wrote:

djcat wrote:However the many years I spent in Britain have taught me that it gets cold enough and that snow doesn't only fall in the alps. It is frankly ridiculous all the fuzz that this place goes through for snowfall others wouldn't even give a thing about, offices closing, trains stopping, flights cancelled for three snowflakes on the tarmac? That is not necessary.

Ok, now I am afraid to have derailed this for good; please keep on track :-D

Not off topic at all, it is precisely the same reason why there's no point fitting winter tyres to a scooter in the UK.
Places which regularly have big snowfalls invest in the infrastructure to deal with it effectively.
Here in the UK big snowfalls are very rare so it does not make economic sense to invest in the infrastructure to deal with it.

Stop painting.

gn2 wrote:It's actually worse than that, using the wrong tyres could constitute an offence punishable by fine and/or points.
There's no need for winter tyres on a PCX, on the few days you might need winter tyres it would be best to leave the scooter at home.

I would have to agree with this comment. Riding in heavy rain is bad enough (I try to avoid that). I can't imagine riding in snow.

you you wrote:

gn2 wrote:

you you wrote:What offence would that be?

Regulation 27 Construction and Use Regs 1986

Any policeman trying to use that for winter scooter tyres would be laughed out of the force and you know it.

Never said that, I said wrong tyres could be an offence.
Which is why anyone intending on fitting wider tyres to a PCX for road use in the UK should check with Honda and the tyre manufacturer before doing so and also check with their insurer.

gn2 wrote:

you you wrote:

gn2 wrote:

Any policeman trying to use that for winter scooter tyres would be laughed out of the force and you know it.

Never said that, I said wrong tyres could be an offence.
Which is why anyone intending on fitting wider tyres to a PCX for road use in the UK should check with Honda and the tyre manufacturer before doing so and also check with their insurer.

And you were implying that winter tyres were the wrong tyres

You're the man with the paintbrush. Is it now best to check with the police, honda and your insurance company what are the not wrong tyres?

you you wrote:And you were implying that winter tyres were the wrong tyres

Nope, that's just the voices in your head saying that.

Winter tyres and UK: Somehow the locals don't understand it, but if a single life is saved cause you can stop in time with winter tyres (car or bike or scooter), the money was worth it. Anyway, I hope one day the UK lawmakers do get the point and insist on it. Again: Winter tyres are worth it and it is careless to drive in winter without them. That may not be the law here, but its certainly my point of view.

Winter tyres and summer use: I have found no problems with that, to say in fact tyre technology has gone a long way since the 80's, when there was a specific warning about braking distances and tyre wear beyond 7 degrees celsius. Nowadays there are good enough winter tyres that might actually outperform low budget summer tyres in any safety relevant exercise (for me that means braking distance and aquaplaning).

Friend of mine drives an E-Class Merc with winter tyres all year round, did so for two years and 40K miles and the tyres were still road legal when changed.

On my car I use proper all year tyres (with snowflake mark and M+S mark). The difference to dedicated winter tyres is in the slightly harder compound, meaning they are probably not ok to go up the Alps but fine (and legal on the continent) to use in 99% of all winter conditions, even more so in the UK. Plus, I have used them all year including this summer and they are still in near new condition.

As with all tyres, I do not go budget on them either. My life depends on them and I don't care about saving 200 Pounds for a complete set I will use 2 years long.

An attachment a picture I took in Gibraltar this weekend. Full of PCXs there and they do have the weather the IRCs where made for.

At last. A bit of sense. Your better with cheapo winter tyres than summer tyres in the bad weather. I mate of mine bought the cheapest chinese winter tyres a couple of years ago and reckons they are the biz. He goes up rough roads in the winter to do downhill mountain biking when the road cycling season is finished. He can drive past front wheel drive cars with summer tyres that get stuck in his RWD Merc with the winters on. Mind cyclists deserve what they get. [SMILING FACE WITH OPEN MOUTH AND TIGHTLY-CLOSED EYES]

Alibally wrote:At last. A bit of sense. Your better with cheapo winter tyres than summer tyres in the bad weather. I mate of mine bought the cheapest chinese winter tyres a couple of years ago and reckons they are the biz. He goes up rough roads in the winter to do downhill mountain biking when the road cycling season is finished. He can drive past front wheel drive cars with summer tyres that get stuck in his RWD Merc with the winters on. Mind cyclists deserve what they get. [SMILING FACE WITH OPEN MOUTH AND TIGHTLY-CLOSED EYES]

Hmmmm

Alibally wrote:At last. A bit of sense. Your better with cheapo winter tyres than summer tyres in the bad weather. I mate of mine bought the cheapest chinese winter tyres a couple of years ago and reckons they are the biz. He goes up rough roads in the winter to do downhill mountain biking when the road cycling season is finished. He can drive past front wheel drive cars with summer tyres that get stuck in his RWD Merc with the winters on. Mind cyclists deserve what they get. [SMILING FACE WITH OPEN MOUTH AND TIGHTLY-CLOSED EYES]

Cheapo winter tyres: whenever I do see tests about them, they can do one thing well, but not much more. E.g. they might be good for snow, but rubbish in wet weather or do well in dry braking but are rubbish in snow. As it is mostly more wet than snow covered in winter even in continental Europe, I prefer at least well performing mid-range ones (Hankook, Vredestein, etc.) that have all the basic safety relevant exercises covered and always the one with the best wet weather performance. Now I have Hankook Optimo 4S on my car, I have family using Goodyear Vector tyres and I had good experience myself with Goodyear UltraGrip 7+ tyres (pure winter tyres but used also in summer).

My decision about the PCX: Given the legal size restrictions, I can't use the wider tyres I intended to that would give me an extra mph or two in top speed adding to the Dr. Pulley sliders, hence I don't think I will use it in rush hour motorway traffic but stick to the Varadero and just take the car if its below 5 degrees. Thanks for your input everybody and ride/drive safe in all weather.

All this talk of Winter tires and no one has mentioned studded tires. I use them on my car in winter but never have on my scoot. Now I wonder how well they would work. Has anyone given them a try?

Schwalbe makes some nice winter tires for scooters but nothing in our size.
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http://www.schwalbetires.com/scooter_ti ... man_spikes
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Honestly let's all do the math. With all the other terrible crap that's going on in this world, anyone with a badge that hassles someone about the tires on their scooter is beyond a joke.

Aha, you've got voices in your head too.

I lived in places where they would hazzle you for the tyres on your bicycle. I never had an issue with that, tyres are important, my life depends on them (e.g. when I am going around a greasy roundabout on a cold day with IRC tyres and a van driver who thinks he is Lewis Hamilton is behind me...).

I run Michelin something 45's on my Pcx in Bangkok, where the winter means rain! Since they're the same size I swap them front to back when I swap the oil. I get a longer life out of them. Loose those Irc's! They are crap tires even when it's not wet.