The Honda PCX / Forza / ADV150 / SH Forums

maddiedog wrote:

CaptnJim wrote:I would be fine with signing a "hold harmless" agreement as a condition of joining here. I belong to other forums and haven't heard of anything like this... crazy that the guy who starts the forum should have any concern about participating on that forum. Other forums just ban the offenders... that seems to work.

Sorry to hear about any inconvenience or problem you have had here, Maddiedog.

Jim

I wish that was an option, but I'm not sure the legality of something like that. It doesn't seem effective to ask everyone to sign waivers and fax them to me.

I may register an LLC and sell the forum to my own LLC for $1 or something. The LLC would protect me from liability entirely, and at worse, someone like the guy threatening to sue could just take the forum away. I'd be willing to see that risk, I'd just ignore the complaint entirely. Worse case, I lose the site, more likely, nothing will even happen.

Maddiedog,

That would be the best way to go. Would like to see you enjoy complete freedom on your own forum.

Steph wrote:

maddiedog wrote:

CaptnJim wrote:I would be fine with signing a "hold harmless" agreement as a condition of joining here. I belong to other forums and haven't heard of anything like this... crazy that the guy who starts the forum should have any concern about participating on that forum. Other forums just ban the offenders... that seems to work.

Sorry to hear about any inconvenience or problem you have had here, Maddiedog.

Jim

I wish that was an option, but I'm not sure the legality of something like that. It doesn't seem effective to ask everyone to sign waivers and fax them to me.

I may register an LLC and sell the forum to my own LLC for $1 or something. The LLC would protect me from liability entirely, and at worse, someone like the guy threatening to sue could just take the forum away. I'd be willing to see that risk, I'd just ignore the complaint entirely. Worse case, I lose the site, more likely, nothing will even happen.

Maddiedog,

That would be the best way to go. Would like to see you enjoy complete freedom on your own forum.

Exactly.
It's ridiculous you can't post on your own forum without fear of being sued.
You could always use a alias and a hidden IP address. (Did I say that out loud)

I thought this is exactly why Congress passed the CDA.

"Congress passed the CDA specifically to overrule a line of cases that had held website owners liable for content posted by third parties where the website owner screened, edited, or otherwise actively monitored content posted on the site. Several well-known cases held that this sort of activity made the host a "publisher" of the content and therefore liable under traditional principles of defamation law or common law rules covering other torts. Congress overruled these cases and it is now clear that hosts are free to monitor content, and to take down problematic postings without risking any liabilities based upon such active involvement. In Blumenthal v. Drudge, 992 F. Supp. 44, 49-53 (D.D.C. 1998), the court summarized the situation as follows: "Congress has provided immunity even where the interactive service provider has an active, even aggressive role in making available content prepared by others. In some sort of tacit quid pro quo arrangement with the service provider community, Congress has conferred immunity from tort liability as an incentive to Internet service providers to self-police the Internet for obscenity and other offensive material even where the self-policing is unsuccessful or not even attempted." The same is true at the other end of the continuum, where the host has no involvement and declines to remove potentially offensive content. In general, there is no such liability as long as the host takes advantage of the safe harbor provided by the CDA. "

SECoda wrote:I thought this is exactly why Congress passed the CDA.

"Congress passed the CDA specifically to overrule a line of cases that had held website owners liable for content posted by third parties where the website owner screened, edited, or otherwise actively monitored content posted on the site. Several well-known cases held that this sort of activity made the host a "publisher" of the content and therefore liable under traditional principles of defamation law or common law rules covering other torts. Congress overruled these cases and it is now clear that hosts are free to monitor content, and to take down problematic postings without risking any liabilities based upon such active involvement. In Blumenthal v. Drudge, 992 F. Supp. 44, 49-53 (D.D.C. 1998), the court summarized the situation as follows: "Congress has provided immunity even where the interactive service provider has an active, even aggressive role in making available content prepared by others. In some sort of tacit quid pro quo arrangement with the service provider community, Congress has conferred immunity from tort liability as an incentive to Internet service providers to self-police the Internet for obscenity and other offensive material even where the self-policing is unsuccessful or not even attempted." The same is true at the other end of the continuum, where the host has no involvement and declines to remove potentially offensive content. In general, there is no such liability as long as the host takes advantage of the safe harbor provided by the CDA. "

Seems clear to me

This really stinks. I'm no lawyer, nor do I play one on TV. But it seems like there should be an option to put a disclaimer throughout the site (maybe in the header of each page and/or in each person's signature automatically)...you know, some legal language around the content of the site being people's opinions...site owners/managers cannot be held liable...yadda, yadda, yadda. And maybe have each member "sign off" on the terms and conditions of using the site at the time that they join. Or for us who have already joined, we would be asked to sign off on the terms and conditions prior to making our next post...or something like that.

But I bet you've looked into this already.

SECoda wrote:I thought this is exactly why Congress passed the CDA.

"Congress passed the CDA specifically to overrule a line of cases that had held website owners liable for content posted by third parties where the website owner screened, edited, or otherwise actively monitored content posted on the site...."

From what I gathered researching this, that only protects the host, not the site owner. It holds HostGator (our web host) not liable, BUT the people who still run / own and maintain the site itself are potentially liable despite the CDA, if it can be proven they chose not to filter out illegal content.

The thought behind it is, if I have screened content, saw it, recognized it, and left it anyways, I am still liable even though the CDA is present. All the asshat has to prove is that I saw the post and chose not to filter it, intentionally leaving up slander, for him to have a suit against me. Luckily, that is not the case here -- as soon as it was requested to be removed, I removed the content. I kept on top of it, and removed everything I recognized. I think part of the reason this situation blew up so big is that the user requested I remove a bunch of other stuff (which I chose not to, it was not slander) and was very upset that I refused to. He/she basically wanted me to only leave up their rants, and remove any posts showing the other side of the story. That's not fair, so everyone got pruned equally, fairly, and legally.

Think of it this way... if you guys started uploading and pirating movies here, and I knew about it and still allowed it, I would be liable. If someone uploads some movie illegally, I reply and be all "cool bro" or acknowledge that it has been posted at all, any of the publishers of that movie could go after me and the site because I chose not to remove the content. It makes sense, in a way, but doesn't help me at all.

Well that is some bull shit. I guess they have to hold somebody accountable but it doesn't seem fair at all.

Can you sell the site to maddie for $1?

Hopefully, GA is one of the low cost states to create an LLC. Here I think you can do it for under $50. NY isn't so nice.

maddiedog wrote: My absence is due to systemic problems with our legal system and a very disgruntled man looking to cause trouble. It has nothing to do with the the above two groups, and your post isn't productive.

Disgruntled "man" is too generous a term for a guy who obviously keeps his balls in his purse, so to speak.

The trouble is they can cost you a lot of money here even if they have no chance of winning.

Very sorry to learn of this.
Riding a scooter is fun, talking and sharing about scooters should be nothing but fun as well.
Well, we all see a few of those angry people venting their unhappiness pretty much every time we turn on the PC.
Every time.
They can make us feel sad or angry if we let them - but imagine how dark is their world. Every day.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

But Sir, I wish you and yours the very best at this special time of year.
Thank you for all your efforts on our behalf.
Fish

.....with no light in sight

Just keep in mind that everyone has a purpose in this world. I think the ones that are disgruntled provide us with the way to compare good and evil. Without one you would not be able to recognize the other. The best that you can do for those type of people is to try not to give them any reason to turn their anger of the world toward you. They have to find their own way in life, and i am betting that they don't see life like the rest of the world sees itself. Something caused this person to hate this world . It takes very little to go wrong for that type of person to go off on the nearest person or group, and to try to make them as miserable as they are. Too bad. The world can be a beautiful place if he would just look.

I don't know how things are going with this but you have created one hell of a good resource for PCX riders and I thank you. There are people who say " Somebody should do something-----" and there are those who just DO IT. You did it and and I am eternally thankful!!

buchaneer.nl wrote:I don't know how things are going with this but you have created one hell of a good resource for PCX riders and I thank you. There are people who say " Somebody should do something-----" and there are those who just DO IT. You did it and and I am eternally thankful!!

Totally agree.

Maddiedog will prevail! For He is a good guy!

Good does not always win without help from others. It is up to the good to find a way to win.

Dang I haven't been on in awhile. I missed something big apparently

Stuff like what maddiedog has had to go through makes me want to move to another planet sometimes. Something is fundamentally wrong with society when you can't even enjoy and participate in your own website due to liability concerns.