The Honda PCX / Forza / ADV150 / SH Forums

ScooterMan wrote:Maybe part of the reason I get higher speeds is due to at least 3 maybe even up to 7 different factors.

1,4, and 7 don't have anything to do with it. It's ok for you to say that is what you get. But I would hope that you won't be so certain to tell others that is what they will or should get. Because they will be disappointed when they don't. Homie has the longest gearing of anyone here with his big rear tire on top of the NCY pullies and the fastest he has seen is 68.

Isn't that largely because the bigger tire requires more power to spin the weight around?

Actually I think maddiedog has the longest gearing as he paired the Kitaco gear kit along with the Yuminashi gear kit, though he does happen to have a big bore kit as well to push it harder.

vamootsman also would agree that 65mph is about as "reliable" a speed as you'll get without touching the engine.

In any case, I should have the opportunity to see for myself over the weekend, though I'll probably wait until the factory warranty expires before I start messing with the engine.

Speaking of which, which tachy is good to mount on for this?

I've seen countless pictures of them, but when I try to dig them up here, I can't find them again <_<

Valiant wrote:Isn't that largely because the bigger tire requires more power to spin the weight around?

The bigger tire takes more energy to accelerate. Similar to a heavier rider. It takes longer to get there. But once you reach a stable top speed, the extra mass is a non issue. Although it does seem like the big tire has more road drag also

I wish I had a proper camera to document my speeds. I reach them relatively easily around here, but not going to lie, headwinds and hills dont help. I would think that everything I mentioned before about it only being a 153cc machine should be common sense to anyone trying to achieve higher speeds on these scooters. It shouldn't take a genius to figure out what these bikes are actually capable of. Maybe the biggest culprit is Honda themselves who make a speedo that reads up to 100mph on a bike rev limited to 65mph.

I do beg to differ on #1, 4, 7. Weight does make a difference up hills, 10 lbs could be as much as 1mph lost up hill. I know because up a 5% grade at freeway speeds, I lose at least 15mph with my 150lb wife on the back. After break in, the scooter's ability to reach/maintain top speed improved as compared to when I got it.

Do lighter weights also replicate the same effect of a stiffer contra spring in the sense that, if I were to go uphill, it would allow a downshift rather than attempt to power up the hill in high gear? Kind of wondering if the two have essentially the same effect, or if there might be some separate and distinct benefit in playing around with both.

Valiant wrote:Do lighter weights also replicate the same effect of a stiffer contra spring in the sense that, if I were to go uphill, it would allow a downshift rather than attempt to power up the hill in high gear? Kind of wondering if the two have essentially the same effect, or if there might be some separate and distinct benefit in playing around with both.

That is what seems to be written about stiffer contra springs. That they make the torque slot more active to pull the belt back down in the front when you gas it at a hill. I didn't find my trans to be more active when I had my torque spring in and I found only negatives from it ie. a slight loss of top speed from it smashing the belt narrower and a slight loss of fuel economy from the increased heat energy in the belt.
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In theory it seems to me that the higher belt tension would actually make it harder for the cvt to change ratio because the only way the rear pullys move in or out is with the outer pully making a twisting motion relative to the inner in order to follow the slot. Which means the belt has to slip around it's face while it is moving. So it would seem the tighter the squeeze on the belt, the less easily the rear pullys can change their position.
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So I am a bit baffled by how the contra spring got to be so popular in scooter tuner culture. I think it is because they are cheap and the manufacturers make a huge profit on them and they come in all different pretty colors. And that many cheap Chinese scooters came with junky ones that actually go slack over time which has not been the case with the PCX.

My take on it is the contra spring should be just stiff enough to prevent belt slip and all other tuning should be done by playing with different weight sliders or rollers.

DeaninMilwaukee wrote:My take on it is the contra spring should be just stiff enough to prevent belt slip and all other tuning should be done by playing with different weight sliders or rollers.

That is my feeling on it. But a wider range of gearing from a big vario is always good for increased top speed and with this long gearing, maybe a more aggressive torque slot might be beneficial to keep the downshifting readily available.

Update!

Had the Advance Pro Drive Face and NCY Secondary Slider Assembly installed today.

I can't say with 100% certainty that the drive face had any noticeable effect on acceleration or top speed, mostly because I was only doing a quick ride in a 50 mph zone where traffic only moves up to 65 mph(on my speedo). However, if subjective opinion is worth anything, I spent an awful lot of time backing off the throttle for the car in front of me that's moving slower than me.

IIRC, speed is just under 60 mph on an uphill incline(maybe 56-57 actual speed), where I was only able to match speeds with the pickup truck in front of me.

The secondary slider is a night and day difference at street speeds. Prior to that, any minor throttle input would have a small delay before jerking me forward if I rolled more than 1 cm on the throttle. Now, throttle input is much more responsive and "linear" and proportional to the amount of throttle I'm using. Short of going WOT from a full stop, it will not jerk at all. Makes street riding VERY smooth and comfortable.

IMO, current trans mods is well above and beyond what I would need for day-to-day commuting. Tomorrow I hope to take this down the odd road to Kaneohe, where I encountered my 47 mph slowdown last time. The idea I'm going with this is to have a peppy commuter bike that can occasionally tour down a moderately fast highway, and not a touring bike that occasionally commutes.

Having said that, I feel confident that I won't even consider engine mods until my factory warranty is up and I've well broken in the engine(currently 800 miles).

Today's top speed was 65 mph on speedo, though my GPS insists it's 62 mph. Both might be true, given that the second I reached 65, I had to slow down because of cars in front of me. I did not tuck at all, nor did I feel the need to.

Do you know which set of torque slots the installer chose to use? Was there any documentation with the secondary sliding pulley to tell you which set of slots is supposed to be the "upgrade"?

Strange that the add copy for the part refers to the "banana curved" slot as the upgrade slot when most modders and racers always change the rear pulleys to get rid of the factory curved slot in favor of a straight slot with a more active angle.

The manual itself isn't clear, looking like someone threw the original manual through Google translate and spit it back out. Not having seen the slots themselves, I assume(from the picture) that there are two sets of straight slots, 40 degrees and 50 degrees. I believe the scooter shop chose the 50 degree set, for reasons I no longer remember because I only had 2 hours of sleep at the time . In any case, I'm very happy with the results(much smoother acceleration), so who cares?


Anyhoo, I took another trip down the H3 highway to Kaneohe. 0-50 acceleration is drastically improved, so I can keep up with or blow past any car in this speed range. Having gone there deliberately, and not having to show up at work some 2 hours later, I got a few important details about the route where I encountered the slowdown. First off, it's a definite uphill, maybe 3 degrees if I got the terms right. It's mild, but it's there. Second, the path runs through a valley at the bottom of two mountains, so pretty much all the wind is channeled through there. You don't notice the wind quite as much because it isn't gusting and doesn't cross, but rather constant like riding into a wall of air.

My speed at that point was 50-51 mph, a moderate improvement over the previous 47 mph. I was riding in full tuck the whole way through. On the return trip through a slightly different path, I believe I was able to get 71-72 mph on the speedo, though my GPS(not exactly a dedicated unit to indicate speed) insists I only went 66 mph the whole way. I probably could've gone faster, but the roads in Hawaii aren't exactly straight and uninterrupted, so I didn't want to chance going faster even in a mild turn.

All-in-all, I'm quite satisfied with the mods I currently have, and I believe the improved speed for the uphill/wind zone is largely due to the air filter and exhaust mods. Given that the H3 is a bit of an odd route, I would say the current setup is good enough to get me through 95% of anywhere on the island without falling behind other traffic.

I'll probably just do one more install with the tachometer(looking at the Koso mini tach) and the Givi wind screen. Probably won't do any engine mods unless I start getting the speed bug and decide that I want to get from 0-60 in under 10 seconds.

The add copy for that torque pulley spoke of one straight slot and one that is curved like the stock pulley but stated that the curved slot was the upgrade slot even though most modders would always want a straight slot. This is my stock pulley.
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There's my little rerun to Kaneohe, though you'll probably only be staring at my fuel cap since I'm riding tuck for the most part .