The Honda PCX / Forza / ADV150 / SH Forums

Bash On! wrote:

itcaptainslow wrote:
But hey, it's an easy stereotype and mud to sling...

Stereotype? Mud-slinging? You're a tad sensitive about this. We're talking about a car brand not a person.

Besides, Rover's bad reputation is well-earned over many years, and is continuing.

Here's just one report:
JD Power 2015 VDS (Vehicle Dependability Study) Rating: With 258 problems per 100 vehicles, Land Rover was second worst of all car manufacturers listed, ahead of only FIAT (which if anything, has a worse rep--though you pay a lot less for the torture).

Citing one component (an engine) does not reflect the overall reliability of a vehicle.

That said, if Rover were to offer the Defender again in the US, I'd be first in line to buy one--reliability be damned. I'd keep my PCX, though, as I'd need at least one dependable vehicle.

Land Rover are a totally separate company to Rover and have been for many many years

I'm not "sensitive" as you put it (my good lady will attest to that!) but it does make me laugh how quickly people jump on certain bandwagons when it comes to "reputations" of manufacturers, deserved or otherwise.

Off topic, but, hey in-person conversations go off on tangents, too:

"Legally the Rover marque is the property of Land Rover under the terms of Ford's purchase of the name in 2006. Land Rover is currently part of Jaguar Land Rover having being sold by Ford to Tata Motors in 2008. As part of the deal with Tata the Rover marque had to remain as property of Land Rover."

Do they even make "Rover" not Land Rover vehicles any more? Info I have said not since 2005.

Bash On! wrote:Do they even make "Rover" not Land Rover vehicles any more? Info I have said not since 2005.

Very off topic, I agree! MG Rover went bust in 2005. Land Rover stopped using any MG Rover engines/technology in around 2001 from memory.

The MG part of the brand was revitalised in 2009 under Chinese ownership.

The Rover brand is owned by Ford I believe (or was) to stop Chinese knock off (or similar!) Land Rover copies being produced. It's purely protection of the Land Rover brand rather than any technological input-Rover isn't a going business concern.

Scooters...

Blown head gasket update? Well guys, after a new head gasket and Anaerobic Gasket Maker I still had coolant getting in the cylinder. Okay, maybe the Prematex does not work. So I tore it down again and sanded the head flat and reassembled with another new head gasket. No joy. I just could not see what I could be doing wrong.

I decided to destroy a spark plug and epoxy a bicycle tube filler valve into it. So the head gasket is okay but there was air coming from both the air filter and from radiator with the intake valve open. So, problem finely diagnosed correctly. There is a casting defect (or crack) in the intake port. It looks like a casting defect to me from what I can see without the valve out of the head.

Well, the bike and engine are disassembled again and I will order a new Cylinder Head tomorrow when the Honda dealer opens up.

This is three and a half times I've torn down this bike. I'm getting pretty good at it I think. I may have it licked this time I hope!

Following along your timeline; that crack in the head occurred in tandem with the 'blown' head gasket - confirming that the cause was indisputably due to a coolant freeze, not a casting defect.
What is surprising is that it might be near the intake valve. Normally freeze/thaw cracks occur at the exhaust valve - near or beneath the seat where the metal has been stressed by the greatest temperature extremes.
You are not going to like this advice but; I would replace the water pump while I was in there - no way is it going to have a normal lifespan.
Glad you finally got it sorted!

fun2scoot wrote:Following along your timeline; that crack in the head occurred in tandem with the 'blown' head gasket - confirming that the cause was indisputably due to a coolant freeze, not a casting defect.
What is surprising is that it might be near the intake valve. Normally freeze/thaw cracks occur at the exhaust valve - near or beneath the seat where the metal has been stressed by the greatest temperature extremes.
You are not going to like this advice but; I would replace the water pump while I was in there - no way is it going to have a normal lifespan.
Glad you finally got it sorted!

Water pump is purely mechanical being driven by camshaft, can't see how it would fail...

fun2scoot, at this point it does not look like the head gasket was ever leaking. There really was no way for me to tell in the three times I broke down the engine without a pressure test. The reason why I believe it could be a casting defect is because of the way it looks through intake port looking from the intake manifold side. I will no better when I pull the valves out. Anyway it looks not very smooth in places almost like weld splatter. It could be a combination of a casting defect that cracked. You may be right on the freeze/thaw theory but that would mean that Honda had coolant that did not meet the winter conditions of New Hampshire.

Pcxdemon, I agree with you on the water pump. I've had it apart 3 times and its a pretty simple item with o ring seals on the water side an the oil side. For the hell of it I just may order new o rings because its been apart a few times.

I see. I was thinking, gentlemen, that if the coolant had solidified then such pressure as could crack the head would greatly impact the water pump bearing and seal. I have experienced this in automobiles when the freeze plugs did not pop. Not an option here.
Jim, I don't know what coolant mixture ratio comes out of the shop up there, but, if it is 50/50, that's only good to about -35°.

The standard Honda coolant is a 50/50 premix and rated down to -36ºC

Hi fun2scoot, I wish I would have checked the coolant before last winter. I assumed it would be okay. It only got down to -19F last winter here so if they did put in 50/50, it should have been good. There is no sign of damage to the radiator or any other part of the cooling system. Guess its just my bad luck!

gn2, I figured Honda would use the correct mix. I still believe its a factory defect but I don't know what I can do about it at this point.

If it is a casting defect, odd that it showed up right after winter storage.
I wonder....
...would a dealership cheap-out so greatly as to not pay for the Honda premix, mix their own, and get the wrong ratio?
I mean; really! This happens right after winter...!

fun2scoot, I can't really blame cold weather or the dealer. I believe the cooling system is filled at the factory and the dealer would only check to see if the small over flow tank has enough coolant in it. What do you think?

I can't really give an informed reply to that.
But this I know: Whenever the weather isn't what I want it to be - the dealer did it!

fun2scoot, I like it and will keep your thinking in mine for future problems.

I ordered a new head, gasket, and o rings for the water pump today. Price is around 125 dollars for everything with the head being $117.00 of that. I told the dealer I was going to bring the old head back to them for there inspection and submission to Honda. The new parts should be in Friday.

Here is my latest update! I disassembled the cylinder head this morning and discovered that the coolant leak into the intake port was caused by a machining era. Just above the intake valve seat Honda machined a counter bore too deeply into a thin wall casting. It caused a breakout into the intake port around a quarter inch long by up to around .040 at its widest. I am hoping to get some consideration from Honda if I can get the Dealer to fight a little bit for me.

jims wrote:Here is my latest update! I disassembled the cylinder head this morning and discovered that the coolant leak into the intake port was caused by a machining era. Just above the intake valve seat Honda machined a counter bore too deeply into a thin wall casting. It caused a breakout into the intake port around a quarter inch long by up to around .040 at its widest. I am hoping to get some consideration from Honda if I can get the Dealer to fight a little bit for me.

Too technical for me (I understand electronics but engine mechanics is alien tech!) - bit if you really had a manufacturing issue like this and the bike is just about a year old, Honda should pay for all repairs as it's not fit for purpose.

iceman, I may have a 50/50 chance of getting some money back from Honda. The guaranty to have no defects in the US is only one year. That makes no sense in a area were you can only ride a bike 6 months out of a year. I started having a starting problem with the PCX the end of April. I had the bike for one year at the end of April but did not understand what the problem was until well into May. I know in England they give you a two year warranty. I wish we had that here.
Because the warranty ran out by the time I figured I really had a problem, I decided to fix it myself because of the high cost for the Dealer to tear it down. I don't expect much in the way of relief from Honda at this point.

I will be bringing the defective head to the Dealer Friday to see if they will help me with Honda.

I put the bike back together over the weekend and I'm back in business. I did leave the valves a little on the loose side but will deal with that on the next bad weather day. The bike runs fine and there are no screws or bolts left over so I'm happy.
The Dealer is submitting the old cylinder head to Honda. I'll let you all know what happens at some point later when I hear from them.

Really happy for you.
You've been through a lot.