The Honda PCX / Forza / ADV150 / SH Forums

If you have ever ridden a multiplied bicycle you will have felt this same thing on occasion when you were going down a hill and started to pedal only to discover that you were in the wrong gear. You didn't crash then, so you you won't now. It is just a surprise at first. If you have never ridden a scooter before it will just be one of those things you learn to compensate for. I doubt that you will do it over and over again once you are aware of it.

Brent wrote:GN2, just to clarify . . . if I am coasting down a hill, and I rotate the throttle, I get a big jolt. I understand that and have done it a few times. My questions is, does it hurt the engine or clutch? Will it glaze the clutch, cause the belt to wear?

Thanks!

Brent!

Mel is right, you must be aware that when pushing off a steep grade on a twist-n-go without throttle you will achieve maximum velocity down the mountain. Use your brakes to reduce your mph to something less than 30 before throttling up. Total loss of rear wheel traction would be a fail, but engine would probably be fine never do it because what good is an engine attached to a bike that just went over a cliff... I tried it on a local grade (made a video) and it's un-nerving to say the least.

Ishkabibble wrote: This "jolt" I'm hearing about concerns me. Modes of transportation aren't supposed to "jolt".

I take it you've never ridden in a horse-drawn vehicle. They jolt a lot.

It's all about finesse. I've only had it happen on very steep grades where I went from not using any power to suddenly needing power to go up the next hill, and as per what GN2 said, I had started out coasting down the hill at about 5mph, so the CVT didn't try to engage until I got the the bottom of the hill. If you use a little throttle, as others have mentioned, this should not be an issue. The trick is to keep the CVT pullies engaged so it doesn't just freewheel.

honkerman wrote:

Ishkabibble wrote: This "jolt" I'm hearing about concerns me. Modes of transportation aren't supposed to "jolt".

I take it you've never ridden in a horse-drawn vehicle. They jolt a lot.

It's all about finesse. I've only had it happen on very steep grades where I went from not using any power to suddenly needing power to go up the next hill, and as per what GN2 said, I had started out coasting down the hill at about 5mph, so the CVT didn't try to engage until I got the the bottom of the hill. If you use a little throttle, as others have mentioned, this should not be an issue. The trick is to keep the CVT pullies engaged so it doesn't just freewheel.

Horse-drawn vehicles don't have very finely crafted 153 cc engines, either.

For you guys, this is something that you're well aware of, familiar with, and know what to do when it happens, so that you don't blow your engine up, or ruin the clutch.

For people like me, the day I bought the thing was the first time I had ever physically laid eyes on one, or actually put my hand on one. As I said, I rode a motorcycle in college, lo those thirty years ago. This is a far different thing. I'd like to think that I didn't spend thousands of dollars on a vehicle I got to ride to work exactly .5 times.

From what I'm hearing, it almost seems like I have to have the throttle engaged all the way down the hill, right up to the time I have to slam on brakes and hope I stop before I run the light and become the hood ornament of some teenager in a Suburban who couldn't be bothered to stop texting his girlfriend.

That's a little bit disconcerting.

There has to be some easier way to explain this to someone without the same experience and knowledge level as you all have. Experienced, knowledgeable riders will understand the nuances, the unwritten, and the things they already know about. Those of us with no knowledge, no experience and no idea what to expect don't know what precisely to expect, nor how to manage things to avoid creating damage.

I thought I had it, but the more I read, the more I'm thinking I simply don't have any idea what to expect, nor how to handle what might come up.

No offense, but I really wish all you experienced folks would remember that none of us total newbies know what you know. It might help us not get scared to get on the thing in the first place. Which I already am, because of this thread.

Ishkabibble wrote:

honkerman wrote:

Ishkabibble wrote: This "jolt" I'm hearing about concerns me. Modes of transportation aren't supposed to "jolt".

I take it you've never ridden in a horse-drawn vehicle. They jolt a lot.

It's all about finesse. I've only had it happen on very steep grades where I went from not using any power to suddenly needing power to go up the next hill, and as per what GN2 said, I had started out coasting down the hill at about 5mph, so the CVT didn't try to engage until I got the the bottom of the hill. If you use a little throttle, as others have mentioned, this should not be an issue. The trick is to keep the CVT pullies engaged so it doesn't just freewheel.

Horse-drawn vehicles don't have very finely crafted 153 cc engines, either.

For you guys, this is something that you're well aware of, familiar with, and know what to do when it happens, so that you don't blow your engine up, or ruin the clutch.

For people like me, the day I bought the thing was the first time I had ever physically laid eyes on one, or actually put my hand on one. As I said, I rode a motorcycle in college, lo those thirty years ago. This is a far different thing. I'd like to think that I didn't spend thousands of dollars on a vehicle I got to ride to work exactly .5 times.

From what I'm hearing, it almost seems like I have to have the throttle engaged all the way down the hill, right up to the time I have to slam on brakes and hope I stop before I run the light and become the hood ornament of some teenager in a Suburban who couldn't be bothered to stop texting his girlfriend.

That's a little bit disconcerting.

There has to be some easier way to explain this to someone without the same experience and knowledge level as you all have. Experienced, knowledgeable riders will understand the nuances, the unwritten, and the things they already know about. Those of us with no knowledge, no experience and no idea what to expect don't know what precisely to expect, nor how to manage things to avoid creating damage.

I thought I had it, but the more I read, the more I'm thinking I simply don't have any idea what to expect, nor how to handle what might come up.

No offense, but I really wish all you experienced folks would remember that none of us total newbies know what you know. It might help us not get scared to get on the thing in the first place. Which I already am, because of this thread.

Many apologies if I've come across at all as condescending. Nothing could be farther from my intent. TBH, when I first read this thread when it originally occured on the forum I thought back to the first time this happened to me, and I nearly had to change my drawers (the near-drawer-changing being at the time of the hill descent, not the time of the reading).

Many of us do have years of riding experience, though I've only been on two wheels for just shy of eight (April 9 will be the anniversary of my very first scooter purchase in 2008), and many have a wealth of mechanical knowledge (I'm still learning, but happy to pass on what I know to help others). Just the same, a lot of it, we had to learn the hard way, and a lot of it is something you just have to feel or experience for yourself for it to make sense.

To clarify this particular issue, you shouldn't experience it at all if you're doing more than 10 mph at the start of the descent and the transmission is engaged all the way down (providing engine braking). This should only happen if you start out at less than 10 mph or so at the beginning of the descent. For instance, if you are at a standstill when you start down the hill and do not accelerate using the throttle, but just allow the scooter to coast down the hill, then hit the throttle when you start to slow at the bottom of the hill, the transmission will play catch up and you will feel that jolt. If you're just going up and down hills and jogging along and the transmission never disengages, you will not run into this issue.

To clarify my earlier story, the only place I've ever had this happen is at a campground my church uses for our yearly day camp. the camp speed limit is 10 mph and the roads at the top of the mountain are gravel. Since the speed was so low and the roads were not conducive to higher speeds, the CVT never engaged until I got to the bottom of the hill (this was with my old Kymco), and when it did, the scoot had two jerks on it for a moment.

Anyway, this is a situation that isn't going to happen if you're going at a good clip when you first start down a hill.

Ishkabibble wrote:From what I'm hearing, it almost seems like I have to have the throttle engaged all the way down the hill, right up to the time I have to slam on brakes and hope I stop before I run the light and become the hood ornament of some teenager in a Suburban who couldn't be bothered to stop texting his girlfriend.

Nope, you don't have to do anything specific with the throttle for going downhill
You can close it and put the brakes on gently in good time and come to a stop all nice and smooth and calm and unflustered.

Don't over-think it, just get out there and ride.

gn2 wrote:

Ishkabibble wrote:From what I'm hearing, it almost seems like I have to have the throttle engaged all the way down the hill, right up to the time I have to slam on brakes and hope I stop before I run the light and become the hood ornament of some teenager in a Suburban who couldn't be bothered to stop texting his girlfriend.

Nope, you don't have to do anything specific with the throttle for going downhill
You can close it and put the brakes on gently in good time and come to a stop all nice and smooth and calm and unflustered.

Don't over-think it, just get out there and ride.

Ishkabibble, yes you do have to do something, enter a grade over 9mph and maintain it. The clutch will be engaged the whole ride down and it won't disengage, engine braking and use of the disc and drum brakes is the proper way to ride a steep grade (no free wheeling).

When you ride the PCX you'll feel that clutch disengage at 9 miles per hour. Forget about pushing off a hill without throttling up, you have to do this intensionally to find this querk. It's much more natural to throttle up even if you happen to be stopped at a traffic light on a steep grade you will still throttle up to and over 9mph thus you are never going to have this hair raising, white knuckle, free wheeling downhill ride.

I did this intentionally to know it could be done, just because it can be done doesn't mean you will ever do it.

homie wrote:

gn2 wrote:

Ishkabibble wrote:From what I'm hearing, it almost seems like I have to have the throttle engaged all the way down the hill, right up to the time I have to slam on brakes and hope I stop before I run the light and become the hood ornament of some teenager in a Suburban who couldn't be bothered to stop texting his girlfriend.

Nope, you don't have to do anything specific with the throttle for going downhill
You can close it and put the brakes on gently in good time and come to a stop all nice and smooth and calm and unflustered.

Don't over-think it, just get out there and ride.

Ishkabibble, yes you do have to do something, enter a grade over 9mph and maintain it. The clutch will be engaged the whole ride down and it won't disengage, engine braking and use of the disc and drum brakes is the proper way to ride a steep grade (no free wheeling).

When you ride the PCX you'll feel that clutch disengage at 9 miles per hour. Forget about pushing off a hill without throttling up, you have to do this intensionally to find this querk. It's much more natural to throttle up even if you happen to be stopped at a traffic light on a steep grade you will still throttle up to and over 9mph thus you are never going to have this hair raising, white knuckle, free wheeling downhill ride.

I did this intentionally to know it could be done, just because it can be done doesn't mean you will ever do it.

Okay, I'm not sure if anyone has seen this, but the speed limit on this particular stretch of four-lane road is 45 MPH. I expect to be traveling on it at that speed. I won't ever be going faster, because I know there is a traffic light at the bottom of the hill, where a seven-lane highway crosses. (It has a suicide lane) This whole 9mph thing is totally irrelevant, and is messing up the way I am trying to think of this.

The problem with all of this, is that the last half-mile to the traffic light is all down hill, and a fairly steep grade. I've personally witnessed 18-wheelers misjudge it, lock brakes, and slide into the main highway. If what I read in gn2 and honkerman's posts, is correct (and I have no reason to presume it is anything other than correct) I'll be, for all intents and purposes, coasting down the hill, slowing down until I get to the light. For the record, in the three years I've been at this job, I have only caught the green light two times. So it's pretty much a given that I am going to have to stop at the bottom of the hill.

I'm really confused.

I think I am just going to have to ride the thing early on a Sunday morning, to see what kind of ride its going to be.

Ishkabibble wrote: I'll be, for all intents and purposes, coasting down the hill, slowing down until I get to the light.

Technically, you won't be coasting since you'll have disengaged the throttle while traveling faster than 9mph, which will keep the CVT pullies engaged. Your scenario is not the scenario this thread is about.

The only time you would run into this clutch disengagement issue is if you drop below 9mph on a downgrade. Since you won't be doing that, this does not apply to you. Instead, your CVT will be providing engine braking which will assist in slowing the vehicle down the hill, much like shifting down in a car, but it does all the work for you.

You will likely still need to brake, while going downhill, so rely first on the combined brakes (left lever), using the front brake (right lever) to supplement them. They are not ABS, so you can pump them as you would a non abs car brake. Care should be taken, especially while you're learning the characteristics of the machine, to rely first on the rear brake, and secondarily on the front. Avoid following too closely, etc.

If I may recommend, if you're nervous, you may wish to invest in a rider's safety course. I don't know what they offer in GA, but here in PA, the safety course is part of your license fee.

LOL you'll be OK, Honda thought this out for you and Honda dosent suck, well there is Forza but generally they got this worked out. I haven't seen any PCX's on the runaway truck ramps lately but I will keep watch. A most embarrassing situation for them as the other truckers cruise by thinking ROOKIE!

honkerman wrote:

Ishkabibble wrote: I'll be, for all intents and purposes, coasting down the hill, slowing down until I get to the light.

Technically, you won't be coasting since you'll have disengaged the throttle while traveling faster than 9mph, which will keep the CVT pullies engaged. Your scenario is not the scenario this thread is about.

The only time you would run into this clutch disengagement issue is if you drop below 9mph on a downgrade. Since you won't be doing that, this does not apply to you. Instead, your CVT will be providing engine braking which will assist in slowing the vehicle down the hill, much like shifting down in a car, but it does all the work for you.

You will likely still need to brake, while going downhill, so rely first on the combined brakes (left lever), using the front brake (right lever) to supplement them. They are not ABS, so you can pump them as you would a non abs car brake. Care should be taken, especially while you're learning the characteristics of the machine, to rely first on the rear brake, and secondarily on the front. Avoid following too closely, etc.

If I may recommend, if you're nervous, you may wish to invest in a rider's safety course. I don't know what they offer in GA, but here in PA, the safety course is part of your license fee.

Okay, I feel much better now. I think you're right, and this won't apply to me as I'll be doing more than that 9 mph thing.

All this terminology and insider-speak on the forum is what's throwing me. I know no one, I don't know how people write, and I've not got a whole lot of recent experience, so I fall back to type as an academic, and research things, which usually solves the problem, except when it makes it worse.

Yes, I had planned on taking a rider-safety course, but I had to buy a helmet first, and that pretty much ate up what it would cost to pay the $250 fee for taking the riders course.

It would be nice if Georgia offered something like this as part of the license fee, but they don't.

homie wrote:Ishkabibble, yes you do have to do something, enter a grade over 9mph and maintain it.

You don't have to maintain a speed of or higher than 9mph going downhill, you can allow the speed to drop below 9mph but you need to open the throttle to re-engage the clutch before it runs away under the influence of gravity with the transmission in neutral.
Its very, very simple so even an academic should be able to understand it.

sheesh, please just go ride the bike...more forum overthinking........do you really think the Honda lawyers ( and engineers) would pet something pout on the street that has some tricky interface you had to learn?

gn2 wrote:

homie wrote:Ishkabibble, yes you do have to do something, enter a grade over 9mph and maintain it.

You don't have to maintain a speed of or higher than 9mph going downhill, you can allow the speed to drop below 9mph but you need to open the throttle to re-engage the clutch before it runs away under the influence of gravity with the transmission in neutral.
Its very, very simple so even an academic should be able to understand it.

That's exactly the experience he's trying to avoid GN why tell him to do that?

homie wrote:

gn2 wrote:

homie wrote:Ishkabibble, yes you do have to do something, enter a grade over 9mph and maintain it.

You don't have to maintain a speed of or higher than 9mph going downhill, you can allow the speed to drop below 9mph but you need to open the throttle to re-engage the clutch before it runs away under the influence of gravity with the transmission in neutral.
Its very, very simple so even an academic should be able to understand it.

That's exactly the experience he's trying to avoid GN why tell him to do that?

Probably so he could get in what he thought was a funny, anti-academic jab...

I keep wondering why everyone wants to focus on this 9mph thing, when that's the least relevant piece of information.

From what I've seen so far, I can just roll on down the hill, braking appropriately, until I come to the stop. If I'm going faster than 9mph and the light changes, I can just accelerate back into the flow of traffic, I suppose...

9mph is a key fact for that is the speed at which a PCX automatically goes into neutral, so for this discussion its probably the most important thing for you to get your head around.
I'm starting to think you're at the wind up now.