Tuning the Forza 300 CVT

[Branyers14]

At first I bring them back from 15, 75g to 14g, in total they will be 14, 5g lighter for the 14 pieces.

I'm telling you, if you want performance, lighter is better. My Malossi variator shipped with 12g weights for a reason.

[sendler2112]

Different variators require diffent amounts a weight in order to get the same pulling rpm.

[Mario]

Ready to put back in.

[robertinino]

At first I bring them back from 15, 75g to 14g, in total they will be 14, 5g lighter for the 14 pieces.

I'm telling you, if you want performance, lighter is better. My Malossi variator shipped with 12g weights for a reason.

what do you think about malossi variator for honda forza 300?
R

[dadragon]

At first I bring them back from 15, 75g to 14g, in total they will be 14, 5g lighter for the 14 pieces.

I'm telling you, if you want performance, lighter is better. My Malossi variator shipped with 12g weights for a reason.

What is the rpm @120 km/h (75 mph)?
Whats the different in acceleration?

[BRed]

Robert:
the 24x18 sliders are probably going to be best for reducing rpm at top end...
I think they'll be better for touring or commuting as opposed to drag racing or just raw acceleration.

I might be wrong on that since all I've tested so far is 20G 2418 sliders....
I'm running identical mixed weights in both BR 250s except one has 23x18 sliders and one has 24x18 sliders.

the smaller sliders ~1-2 sec are faster 0 -60mph, but the larger sliders are ~1-2 seconds faster at 60-80 mph...
the taller ones were about 4-5mph faster within a reasonable length run.

With me on the Forza and two friends riding my Big Ruckus scooters (all using slider/roller mix in the cvt) we did a 277 mile run
about 8 hours on everything from switchbacks and twisties in the mountains to 75mph Interstates and ranging from 50' above to sea level to over 5000' in the mountains. Both riders thought the cvts always seemed to be in right gear, downshifted positively when needed and never lugging, but the rider on the bike with the taller sliders definitely noticed the other scoot could pull away from him from a dead stop, but he also noticed he could leave him behind at Interstate speeds.

All 3 scoots were in the 65-68mpg range with the Forza barely edging out the Big Rucks tiny Keihin carb.


the 24x18 sliders are are ~ .8mm shorter than 24x18 rollers (about the same ratio of 23x18 sliders to rollers)
but...they are 0.3mm taller than 23x18 Honda rollers.

The curve is similar in shape but about 250-300rpm lower at any given speed.

Now I want some lighter ones to try.

[BRed]

A view from the top of the world (at least locally?)

[waspmike]

Ready to put back in.

Didn't know they came in black. The third one i drilled the drill stop became loose and i drilled right through the bottom . Doesn't hurt though I thought as the bell never touches the end!

[Mario]

BRed,
It wooth be interesting to compare when you video recorded 0-100 / 40-60 / 60-80 and 80-100

Br, Mario

Robert:
the 24x18 sliders are probably going to be best for reducing rpm at top end...
I think they'll be better for touring or commuting as opposed to drag racing or just raw acceleration.

I might be wrong on that since all I've tested so far is 20G 2418 sliders....
I'm running identical mixed weights in both BR 250s except one has 23x18 sliders and one has 24x18 sliders.

the smaller sliders ~1-2 sec are faster 0 -60mph, but the larger sliders are ~1-2 seconds faster at 60-80 mph...
the taller ones were about 4-5mph faster within a reasonable length run.

With me on the Forza and two friends riding my Big Ruckus scooters (all using slider/roller mix in the cvt) we did a 277 mile run
about 8 hours on everything from switchbacks and twisties in the mountains to 75mph Interstates and ranging from 50' above to sea level to over 5000' in the mountains. Both riders thought the cvts always seemed to be in right gear, downshifted positively when needed and never lugging, but the rider on the bike with the taller sliders definitely noticed the other scoot could pull away from him from a dead stop, but he also noticed he could leave him behind at Interstate speeds.

All 3 scoots were in the 65-68mpg range with the Forza barely edging out the Big Rucks tiny Keihin carb.


the 24x18 sliders are are ~ .8mm shorter than 24x18 rollers (about the same ratio of 23x18 sliders to rollers)
but...they are 0.3mm taller than 23x18 Honda rollers.

The curve is similar in shape but about 250-300rpm lower at any given speed.

Now I want some lighter ones to try.

[Mario]

Not bad at all

[Mario]

Hitting 150km/h

[sendler2112]

7,400 rpm! sometimes 7,600 with the lighter weights. Very fast. Well under 10 seconds 0-100 kph.

[Mario]

It also feels fast, and without loosing top speed

And not sure but I think it's more economical when driving normal.

[Blackbeard1718]

Mario!

Great Video's! Watching you Lane-Splitting in traffic, was awesome! I take it, this wasn't your First Time!

I noticed your Forza has Emergency Flashers! Where is the Switch located, on the Right Control Stalk or Left? Wish we had them here! I wonder if it's just a matter of adding a Relay to the system?

Cheers!

BB

[Mario]

Mario!

Great Video's! Watching you Lane-Splitting in traffic, was awesome! I take it, this wasn't your First Time!

Haha, when you live long enough in The Netherlands it will be your second nature

Mario!
I noticed your Forza has Emergency Flashers! Where is the Switch located, on the Right Control Stalk or Left? Wish we had them here! I wonder if it's just a matter of adding a Relay to the system?

Cheers!

BB

We don't have the parking brake The switch is located on the right side just under the motor off switch.

[Blackbeard1718]

Mario!

Great Video's! Watching you Lane-Splitting in traffic, was awesome! I take it, this wasn't your First Time!

Haha, when you live long enough in The Netherlands it will be your second nature

Mario!
I noticed your Forza has Emergency Flashers! Where is the Switch located, on the Right Control Stalk or Left? Wish we had them here! I wonder if it's just a matter of adding a Relay to the system?

Cheers!

BB

We don't have the parking brake The switch is located on the right side just under the motor off switch.

Thanks Mario!

That really makes no sense at all!!! You folks don't get the Parking Brake, and we don't get the Hazard Flashers! If it's already Designed for the Forza, WHY NOT just put them both on at the Factory? I just can't figure the reasoning for leaving either one off. Both are Safety Features! Hmmmm!

Looking for someone to Flog.....

Cheers!

BB

[robertinino]

Robert:
the 24x18 sliders are probably going to be best for reducing rpm at top end...
I think they'll be better for touring or commuting as opposed to drag racing or just raw acceleration.

I might be wrong on that since all I've tested so far is 20G 2418 sliders....
I'm running identical mixed weights in both BR 250s except one has 23x18 sliders and one has 24x18 sliders.

the smaller sliders ~1-2 sec are faster 0 -60mph, but the larger sliders are ~1-2 seconds faster at 60-80 mph...
the taller ones were about 4-5mph faster within a reasonable length run.

With me on the Forza and two friends riding my Big Ruckus scooters (all using slider/roller mix in the cvt) we did a 277 mile run
about 8 hours on everything from switchbacks and twisties in the mountains to 75mph Interstates and ranging from 50' above to sea level to over 5000' in the mountains. Both riders thought the cvts always seemed to be in right gear, downshifted positively when needed and never lugging, but the rider on the bike with the taller sliders definitely noticed the other scoot could pull away from him from a dead stop, but he also noticed he could leave him behind at Interstate speeds.
All 3 scoots were in the 65-68mpg range with the Forza barely edging out the Big Rucks tiny Keihin carb.
the 24x18 sliders are are ~ .8mm shorter than 24x18 rollers (about the same ratio of 23x18 sliders to rollers)
but...they are 0.3mm taller than 23x18 Honda rollers.
The curve is similar in shape but about 250-300rpm lower at any given speed.

Now I want some lighter ones to try.

bred ciao,
what I understand:
mix 23x18 sliders - rollers 20gr - 15 gr are better for acceleration from 0- to 60 mhp
mix 24x18 sliders - rollers 20gr - 15 gr are better for touring 4-5 mhp top speed and acceleration from 60- to 80 mhp
mix 24x18 sliders - rollers with different grams will be better for acceleration and touring. But you don't know the right
grams at the moment.
Robert

[BRed]

That's correct, Robert...
from what I've seen while using them in a mix, now I want to try 6 lightweight 2418 sliders, maybe 17-18 grams?

the taller sliders may serve the same purpose as the rollers in the mix I use.


again, I was trying for the least expensive, least invasive and lowest revving, most reliable CVT mod you can do and I think I've found it.

but it definitely is NOT the fastest....Mario's videos show he is already there!

To reiterate what I've said so far....
1) the J.Costa is THE fastest variator I've ever tested on my scoots...but it wears out fast!
2) DR Pulley sliders @17-19G will give you the fastest 0-60 time...with a conventional variator!
3) by mixing 23x18 sliders and rollers, you can mimic the acceleration curve of a J.Costa...up to a point!


the Costa will have more range and more top end, since it closes with a vengeance...
watch your pulley faces right around the bronze bushing with continued use.

What the Costa really needs is TWO matching pulley faces...
then, it would be perfection.

[Mario]

J.Costa with 12.5gr. rollers and the green PS spring mounted on the TechPulley clutch.

The clutch setup is now the lightest possible, it feels that the CS springs can be lighter (less slipping) but there are no lighter springs.
I think that the standard Honda clutch give's more starting power but that will be filled in later with an other video.

The J.Costa is just to my likings with the 12.5gr. rollers, still good for slow riding and lots of power on full throttle

0-100 km/h


40-60 / 60-80 / 80-100 km/h

[robertinino]

thank you very much Bred (thanks for the photo too, it's really nice)

thank you very much Mario, for everything you share with us, you are very generous like Bred.

ciao
Robert