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Re: Valve adjustment
Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 6:35 pm
by fish
Would there be all this discussion regarding the valve check/adjustment....if you could get the valve cover off in 20 minutes? Hondas are not the only scooters with buried engines.....but you can make a scooter that is easy to service. Several Kymco scooters are much easier to service..and therefore they get regular service! :-)
My Forza is not exactly a piece of cake to get inside either.
Fish
Re: Valve adjustment
Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 8:32 pm
by iceman
MikeP wrote:At 600 miles I paid 270.00 for the first service. After I "healed" from that I decided to do my own servicing.
Thanks to all the good folks on this board for your posts and advice.
At 1500 miles, I did my own service. I found my valves were tight and way under spec. In reading more I saw the need to do the valve check on a cold engine. Hmm....I rode to the dealer last time and picked up the bike 6 hours later...Hmm....metal expands when heated....
Anyhow, after my check at 1500 miles, I noticed a light "ticking sound". I rode for a week, researched some more and finally could not stop worrying so I did them again. I checked and they were bang on, manually rotated the engine, checked again, and they were bang on. Did this 4 times to ensure I was not missing something. Might add that all my work was done on a stone cold engine.
So now I am at over 7200 miles, still the same light ticking sound. Engine runs great. I do a lot of highway riding at 55 to 65 miles/hr. Not uncommon for me to do a 200-300 day trip for example.
My conclusion: If it ain't broke don't fix it" I don't plan on checking the valves anytime soon. Perhaps at 12000 miles, I will just for the hell of it, but only if I have nothing better to do.
In regards to warranty, for what my dealer charges, I will take my chances, maintain the bike myself and save the cash. (I still have 6 months on my warranty left) If I made a mistake and have to pay for some repairs, I will use the money I saved on their outrageous warranty service and pay for it myself. Lets face it if after 1000 miles if nothing has gone wrong, then nothing will probably will go wrong. Save your money
Now they are spot on, you hear a light ticking sound which seems to agree with the comment there should be a slight ticking sound else the valves may be tight and harm may be done. So, when you found them very tight on your first check, had you heard a ticking sound at that point or was the bike fairly silent? Be interesting to see if there was a difference to the sound of the bike.
The concensus seems to be the valves are often fine from new to 10'000's miles in, no one really seems to have suffered from not having them adjusted (dealers do not do this for low charge and 30 minute turn-around!) and no one had reported their engine was harmed and the dealer blamed miss-adjusted valves. People on this forum who reported problems and had a dealer look into it, seem to suggest most problems seem to be leaks or one kind or another, rattles, electrical issues or the occasional wheel/brake problem. Can't remember seeing any post(s) suggesting tight/loose valves harmed their bike within years of ownership.
Re: Valve adjustment
Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 11:47 pm
by MikeP
Iceman, when I first had the valves set by the dealer, I could barely hear any ticking sound. That is why I checked and re- checked my valve setting job. The audible change was so drastic, I thought I had messed up at first. Now I am confident that the way they sound, a light ticking, is the way they should sound if set to spec.
As I continue to service my bike I will update my findings so everyone here can benefit. I really believe this is a bike most people are capable of servicing and thus add to the value and savings of this machine.
Re: Valve adjustment
Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:36 am
by jkautz
It would be nice if the engine wasn't buried under plastic. I wouldn't have any problem checking the valves. I hardly trust a dealer to do it, let alone pulling my bike apart & checking it. They could scratch/damage the parts they pull off, break a couple of the snaps. I don't like leaving my stuff in the hands of a dealer. I don't do it with my truck, I wouldn't want to do it with my scoot!
Re: Valve adjustment
Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:37 am
by jkautz
Thanks again MikeP, I look forward to updates. I will do the same. I am skipping the valve check & pocketing the $300 by doing so.
Re: Valve adjustment
Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 4:47 pm
by dkazzed
I ordered a set of feeler gauges to do my own valve clearance inspection/adjustments. They're quoting the same $300 to work on my CBR 125R as the PCX 150s making me a bit suspicious seeing how my CBR does not need as much prep work such as tupperware removal. They did say they need the bike overnight as the engine needs to be cold cold cold for them to do a proper valve adjustment. I just want to make sure the valves are within spec out of curiousity, then just do this every 12,000km afterwards.
Re: Valve adjustment
Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 7:05 pm
by relic
clicking is probably good- clacking no good- got to have some clearance
you should hear my 15 litre double overhead cam Cummins diesel when it's cold
what a racket
500000 mile interval on resets for that baby
Re: Valve adjustment
Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 12:54 pm
by jkautz
Skip the valve adjustment? Or proceed with getting them checked by the dealer?? I'd like everybody's thoughts on if I should or not. My scheduled apt is 5/8 to drop it off & 5/9 to pick it up
Re: Valve adjustment
Posted: Fri May 01, 2015 8:30 am
by fish
jkautz wrote:Skip the valve adjustment? Or proceed with getting them checked by the dealer?? I'd like everybody's thoughts on if I should or not. My scheduled apt is 5/8 to drop it off & 5/9 to pick it up
Checked by the dealer.
Good that it is not a quick turn around - as the engine must be stone cold.
Ask if you might watch from a distance when they get ready to do it - so you can get
"some pointers on the removal of the panels."
Afterwards - you'll be as peace with the situation for a long time....and so will your valves.
An investment, twice over.
Fish
Re: Valve adjustment
Posted: Fri May 01, 2015 9:43 am
by you you
fish wrote:jkautz wrote:Skip the valve adjustment? Or proceed with getting them checked by the dealer?? I'd like everybody's thoughts on if I should or not. My scheduled apt is 5/8 to drop it off & 5/9 to pick it up
Checked by the dealer.
Good that it is not a quick turn around - as the engine must be stone cold.
Ask if you might watch from a distance when they get ready to do it - so you can get
"some pointers on the removal of the panels."
Afterwards - you'll be as peace with the situation for a long time....and so will your valves.
An investment, twice over.
Fish
It just needs to be cold. Hour, hour and half max
Re: Valve adjustment
Posted: Mon May 04, 2015 10:36 am
by jkautz
Well the first thing the dealer told me is they prefer to keep it overnight to ensure the engine is cold. So maybe it's worth paying for it this time around, even if for warranty purposes & peace of mind. I'll just get this one done, and not worry for a long time afterwards I hope
Re: Valve adjustment
Posted: Fri May 08, 2015 12:49 pm
by fish
jkautz wrote:Well the first thing the dealer told me is they prefer to keep it overnight to ensure the engine is cold. So maybe it's worth paying for it this time around, even if for warranty purposes & peace of mind. I'll just get this one done, and not worry for a long time afterwards I hope
Yep, most reliable service manuals and mechanics will tell you "over night".
Has been the norm with valve adjustments for a long time.....for a reason!
Fish
Re: Valve adjustment
Posted: Fri May 08, 2015 1:49 pm
by you you
fish wrote:jkautz wrote:Well the first thing the dealer told me is they prefer to keep it overnight to ensure the engine is cold. So maybe it's worth paying for it this time around, even if for warranty purposes & peace of mind. I'll just get this one done, and not worry for a long time afterwards I hope
Yep, most reliable service manuals and mechanics will tell you "over night".
Has been the norm with valve adjustments for a long time.....for a reason!
Fish
I was a mechanic and have worked on bikes and cars for 30 years. Doesn't make any real difference. There are many "cold" temperatures depending on ambient temperature at a given location. As long as the engine feels cold that is fine.
Re: Valve adjustment
Posted: Fri May 08, 2015 4:08 pm
by jkautz
Just dropped my scoot off at the dealer on my lunch. Picking her up tomorrow morning. Please god help us all!! I hope they do a good job.
Re: Valve adjustment
Posted: Fri May 08, 2015 11:26 pm
by maddiedog
jkautz wrote:Well the first thing the dealer told me is they prefer to keep it overnight to ensure the engine is cold. So maybe it's worth paying for it this time around, even if for warranty purposes & peace of mind. I'll just get this one done, and not worry for a long time afterwards I hope
This is normal and good. This makes it sound like you have a competent dealer.
jkautz wrote:Just dropped my scoot off at the dealer on my lunch. Picking her up tomorrow morning. Please god help us all!! I hope they do a good job.
How'd it go?
Re: Valve adjustment
Posted: Sun May 10, 2015 1:53 am
by jkautz
Picked it up. They showed me the results. Both valves were "snug" but not tight, they set them both to factory spec. $135 and some peace of mind. One thing concerned me though, I came home and checked the oil. It was almost bone dry. After only 1500 miles since my last change, it only had about 1/3 quart in there. Do these scooters shear oil that bad that I'd be down an entire half quart? I added little by little to ensure not to overfill. It ended up taking a half quart and finally showed up on the dipstick. Pretty scary. Who knows how long I've been commuting at WOT with barely any oil. Do you think it has caused any damage?
Re: Valve adjustment
Posted: Sun May 10, 2015 5:03 am
by iceman
OVer a year on my pcx has not lost or eaten much oil at all - still safe within the limits when last checked - about 6 weeks ago. Either yours is losing too much (but surely you would notice such a loss) or the dealer screwed up big time.
Re: Valve adjustment
Posted: Sun May 10, 2015 9:51 am
by jkautz
How would the dealer do this? I didn't request an oil change. Seems crazy to me that it's lost this much. It's definitely not weeping oil or leaking. So maybe the dealer drained it? Thinking I needed an oil change but then never filled it?
Pretty scary if that's the case. I rode 50 miles home after I picked it up. I feel like the engine would of seized up with that much oil lost
Re: Valve adjustment
Posted: Sun May 10, 2015 2:07 pm
by iceman
jkautz wrote:How would the dealer do this? I didn't request an oil change. Seems crazy to me that it's lost this much. It's definitely not weeping oil or leaking. So maybe the dealer drained it? Thinking I needed an oil change but then never filled it?
Pretty scary if that's the case. I rode 50 miles home after I picked it up. I feel like the engine would of seized up with that much oil lost
Not sure if the dealer was at fault this visit or prior visit or if you are losing lots of oil. But wierd the bike felt normal with only half the oil inside the engine. Have you noticed any oil leaking out since filling? If it was losing oil it should still be doing so.
Re: Valve adjustment
Posted: Sun May 10, 2015 11:34 pm
by jkautz
It's definitely not losing oil. The drain plug is tight and no oil residue present around it. The screen plug is tight. I'm going to start checking it daily after my commute to see what is going on. The scooter was at WOT on my 50 mile ride home after picking it up so id figure if it there was a lack of oil the engine would seize up and seize up fast.