The Honda PCX / Forza / ADV150 / SH Forums

Mel46 wrote:Here is a quick lesson, as I understand it, and I am not an expert by any means.

Unlike motorcycles, scooters are automatics so they do not have gear boxes. Instead, they have a belt that connects to a round mechanism called a variator which contains some weighted rollers. As the accelerator increases the variator spins faster, which then affects the weights... rollers...and causes the belt to move farther out, which works in the same manner as changing to a bigger sprocket in your geared motorcycle. The rollers determine how quickly the belt will move out to its optimal position. The variator, on the other hand, determines just how fast the machine can go, since it has a limit...the belt can only go so far.

Aftermarket variators were created for those who wanted to increase that maximum limit. Some work better than others, though the engine itself is a limiting factor as well. If you only have 13 hp to work with don't expect it to do what 15 hp can do.

And that is about the life it of my knowledge. I hope that helps some.

thank you Mel46 for kicking this topic off, I have only owned my Forza 300 for 2 days but I had it from the dealer on test for 2 days before that and loved the auto. I moved off from some traffic lights at the front of the queue on the first day and sailed into amzing acceleration, before I knew it 55mph , blimey!! stunning power and all in the hands of a variator, very impressive

The motorcycles I have owned previously always had manual gearboxes because that is the way they came , I remember 20 years ago a motorcycle came onto the horizon with auto but nobody bought it and faded into oblivion, I was always fascinated with that ancient news story, I used to know more but too far back now

ok Mel46 has given us a great start on this but do you know more? have you worked on the variator? had issues?

As said above, messing around with the variator and weights will allow you to move the power band within the RPM range, so that you get starts that are quicker off the line. You can do that with just changing weights. No I don’t know what the right weight is for the new Forza. I don’t think anybody is making a complete variator kit yet, but a change in variation allows the belt to move out a little bit more so you get more top end .That’s what everybody here is doing on the PCX with the NCY variator kit. However with 300 cc an a single rider, the difference is not as significant as on the PCX wit 150 cc. The Forza is plenty fast the way it is. I would do suspension mods and exhaust mods before I did the variator.

And then you get the 49cc crowd who spend a lot of time and money to make it go 3 mph faster or some trivial amount but they are so passionate about the whole procedure. Hilarious.

Dave is it the same in Canada as UK? car drivers get the 49cc licence category as soon as they pass their car licence? so any car driver could if they wanted to drive a 49cc 'moped', its included

whoops I just realised they stopped that in 2001

In British Columbia, Canada you can ride a 49cc scooter with a car license.

In most States in the United States you are suppose to have a VALID driver's license before you can take a 49cc scooter onto the road. Unfortunately the rules lack enforcement in some States, which leads to that little scooter class being called "the drunk cycle" because a great majority of those riders have had their license suspended due to DUI's, and should not even be allowed to ride those on the streets. If the rules were enforced most of those types of riders would be off of the street and we would only have to worry about high school kids using them to go to their after school jobs.

Here in Panama City Beach there are many scooter (and golf cart) rental places along Front Beach Road (many, many miles long). During the warmer months and especially at spring break we get all the yahoos renting them. I'm sure that very few have ever ridden a bike before. They are all 50ccs and what is so funny is that the majority of ones they rent are made to look like crotch rockets. They look so stupid balanced on top of 'em and going flat out at about 28 mph. In the last 18 months we have seen multiple accidents with them and the rental stores encourage them to toot their horn at any passing scooter. Other renters toot back. As for me, on my PCX, I give them a totally different signal!

However, at last the City has decided to do something about it and starting in 2020 the renting of scooters will be banned in the City. Most of them are already thinning down their stocks and starting to move out.

This animated .gif will help everyone visualize how the variator and associated pulleys work to make the CVT (Continuously Variable Transmission) function. The top pulley is attached to the engine crankshaft. The bottom pulley is attached to the centrifugal clutch and the geared transfer case that ultimately drives the the rear wheel.



https://www.dansher.com/bikepix/variatoranimation.gif

More discussion of how the variator and clutch work is at this link:

https://www.dansher.com/bikepix/Reflex/cvt_fyi.txt

Jge64 wrote:As said above, messing around with the variator and weights will allow you to move the power band within the RPM range

This is entirely wrong.
The power characteristics of the engine are unchanged by transmission tweaks.
All you are doing is adjusting how the transmission responds.
You can't get something for nothing.
Better acceleration will be at a cost of worse fuel economy.

I am on 3x21gram and 3x17gram rollers now, on my Forza 300cc 2016.

Some Thai guys mentioned that Xmax 300 rollers are exactly the same size as Forza but 17gram. So that makes it easy to buy a good quality stock rollers from local Yamaha dealer at a good price, what I did.

But I didn't want to go 6x17 as I thought it would be a bit too light, so I'm trying this mix arrangment.

The clutch engages at 3000rpm as oppose to 2500rpm, and I think generally I'm reving ~500rpm more at various speeds than before. Not a big deal, I guess that gives a bit more umf on hills...

I'm yet to fully test top end properly, due to lockdown and rainy season here, but a few tries shows a few kph lower, I used to get 137kph, now about 133kph. Again, not a big deal, I never go that fast normally anyway.

My next adjustment is a new remap ECU if I can find one locally, my rpm stops at about 8000/8200 now, and I think has a limiter at that point, but should be able to go higher to 9000, I have seen some mention of that....

I asked if they can remap mine, but the consensus is better get another, if any issue, can always switch it back to original, while if they mess up the original I'm stuck....

I have the same sentiment halluinoid. I find the CVT very pleasing to ride. I have owned a manual motorcycle, and found it too busy. My car is a Manual, yet I find manual motorcycles boring. I also like the fact that you can just twist the throttle and go, it makes riding in traffic such a pleasure.

Fun fact the CVT was banned from use in F1 before it even got a chance to compete. https://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/10-c ... banned-f1/