The Honda PCX / Forza / ADV150 / SH Forums

Hello "Govnuhs!"

I don't know how many Americans you have on this forum, but add another. Long time rider and former motorcycle racer here. I currently own a Suzuki Burgman 650 Executive (for sale) and a 2016 Honda Rebel 250 (for sale).

I've got the hots for a PCX 150 (160). I'm into the small engine bikes these days. I live in Atlanta metro, and I have a 2nd home about 140 miles north of me. I've rode the Burgman and the Rebel there several times. The Burgman is a non issue, except it is a gas hog. The Rebel, is just barely adequate. It runs fine, but is an old school 2V twin cylinder engine. It makes about 16 or 17 hp. It maxes out at 72 mph (gps, 75 mph on the speedo).

I drive it on I-85, I-285 (around Atlanta), and I-75 north toward Chattanooga. When I ride the Rebel, I just keep it pinned WOT the whole way. It has no issue doing this. Certain downhills, it probably runs into its red zone a bit (no tachometer). But I just keep it pinned anyway. The bike rides great. Yeah, it is a bit slow, and some vehicles completely blow by me like I'm sitting still. I do pass some traffic. And have found it fun to draft up to other cars and trucks (but not too close) and pull out and sling-shot around them. Very fun. I would imagine there are similar high speed interstates like this in England (I've never been there). But speeds average realistically probably 77 mph in 70 mph zones. Meaning, some cars are doing 85, and some are doing the speed limit of 70 mph. The rest are in between.

It is more dangerous in Atlanta however because there are the frequent ... uh ... specific drivers, that come by at 100 mph or greater, driving ole crusty hoopties on Maypop tires, while weaving through traffic like they're playing GTA. Now that is scary.

Sorry for the long post, but the question is: Would it hurt the PCX to run it pinned WOT for a full tank? I imagine at WOT probably 150 miles would be about the max range. From what I understand, the new PCX 150 (actually 160), will hit 77 mph (gps) on flat level ground no wind. So it would actually be faster than my mighty Rebel.

Thanks "blokes."


7milesout

Running wide-open throttle for a full tank it’s never a good idea. But can the PCX do it? Of course you can, but long-term you are running at the extreme of the bike and if something does go wrong, it will be rather extreme.

A much better idea is to purchase some type of 300 cc, where you are never at the limits of the traffic or interstate speeds and the bike has a reserve.

Welcome, 7mile. Yes, it would hurt any bike to do this; have you done this with any prior bike, as a long time rider? Jge64 has good advise: You need to move up, not down from your "barely adequate" Rebel -pretty simple. I'd guess your twin-cylinder small engine could handle extremes better than this smaller thumper. Good luck shopping.

After running in, if you use fully synthetic oil the engine will be fine to run wot all the time.
BUT despite what you may have read on the web, the PCX will not be as fast as your Rebel.
No substitute for cubes, get a Piaggio 350

Good advice. I see your points. However, the Rebel 250 is 70's, or perhaps 60's technology and air cooled. And yes, I have ran it WOT many times for a full tank of gas. I also installed a AFR meter on that bike and watched the AFRs during those rides. It always ran safely rich, at about 12.0:1. That works well for an air cooled engine.

Yet the PCX being a modern, liquid cooled, 4 valve engine, I would imagine it could withstand WOT more robustly than the Rebel.

Also, I have watched youtube videos of the PCX 150 and 160. Seems the 150 would top out at about 70 GPS verified, and the 160 does 77 GPS verified. On par with the Rebel, if not better. Similar power, lower wind resistance.

Modern, shmodern... I'd still imagine that Honda's legendary 234cc twin, well-maintained, would be stronger, more "robust" than its brand new not-so-similar 156.9cc thumper. But you may be the only one who could/would test these imagined possibilities. ;-)

BTW, I believe that twin actually had 19hp, AND 19 Norton meters. BTW2, while your 2016 was the last 250 Rebel, did you know Honda actually revived the legend momentarily (I believe, again) in 2020 -though not in the US, of course? ;-)

7milesout wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 3:48 pm I have watched youtube videos of the PCX 150 and 160. Seems the 150 would top out at about 70 GPS verified, and the 160 does 77 GPS verified.

Ancient proverb: there's lies, damned lies and YouTube videos.

I have had all sorts of bikes in my life, and the one thing that I can say about my PCX150 is that it is fun. Keeping that in mind, just know that fun means different things to different people. Prior to owning my PCX I owned a beautiful Suzuki Burgman 400. It ran great and took on freeway traffic without complaints. Sometimes my wife would ride beside me on HER PCX150, and even WOT she had a time keeping up when we started to climb on I-400. The engine hit the limiter quite often when she had to fight headwinds plus elevation to get to North Georgia. My Burgman 400 had NO such problem. Adding a Givi tall windshield made the ride all the more comfortable as well. In fact riding 2 up was easy, even on the freeways.

I eventually traded my Burgman in for a PCX just like hers because we found ourselves riding in town and on back country roads way more often than the freeways. I had modified my wife's bike so that it tops out at 75 mph. I did the same to my new PCX and we cruised the back roads at 55 mph comfortably.

Bottom line: Get a bigger engine. The Burgman 400 is a thumper but with a bigger engine...more horses. Gas miles were great though few bikes can beat the 100 mpg of a PCX 150. You won't miss the difference in mpg but you WILL enjoy the added horsepower.

I think a scooter like the XMAX 300 would be the perfect bike for you. I have both a 2020 PCX and XMAX. Love them both, but XMAX much better for long hauls and highway riding.

While any engine can be run at 100% of design power, its life will be shortened. For example, even the stalwart Rotax aircraft motors run at the operational limit of 75% (ignore the 91% in the engineering design chart - it's for show) can have a TBO of just a few hundred hours.
On one of my routes there is a 15 minute WOT run on the Interstate. Not long but even then I quiver a bit, considering that the valves are getting zero or near-zero dwell time, the plasticity of the metal is stressed to high pressure, and, "now; when was my last oil change?"

Wot.......?

I'm not positive but I think it was the Honda Helix & Reflex 250 cc scoots that were known to sustain Wide Open Throttle highway travel without harm. Was that due to conservative carburation or small valves that restricted RPMs ? I know the RaceSaver 305 c.i. Sprint Cars adhere to rules that limit the engines' heads in order to improve longevity.

7milesout wrote: ↑Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:18 pm I live in Atlanta metro

Would it hurt the PCX to run it pinned WOT for a full tank? I imagine at WOT probably 150 miles would be about the max range. From what I understand, the new PCX 150 (actually 160), will hit 77 mph (gps) on flat level ground no wind.

I put over 10k miles on my first PCX around Atlanta. You'll be fine in the right lane on 75/85 ITP, but you're a road hazard at best on 285, roadkill on 20, and beyond flattened on 87/75 OTP. At least half those miles were wide open throttle. The PCX is so conservatively tuned you can beat it all day at WOT without missing a beat.

• You'll have trouble keeping up on highway 41 or highway 92 in some places outside the perimeter, let alone the interstate.
• The 77mph is flat ground, ideal conditions. ATL is hilly and those hills kill your speed.
• My PCX out here in NM at high altitude will struggle to pull 35 up some of the mountains here, and I weigh 150lbs.

Technology is great, but it's no substitute for displacement. I'd go bigger - maybe a Forza?

Other thoughts:

• I had a Reflex, it was good, but I blew it up from too much WOT. That carbed engine runs lean.
• Don't get a Silverwing, they're abysmal. I'm not saying they're not reliable or appropriate for highway speeds; mine was comfortable and up to the task... It just was so unbelievably BORING to ride. You had a Burger so you know how I feel

...I also had a Nighthawk, so really the same V twin as your Rebel.

If I were in your shoes, I'd kit out that Rebel (OMG UPGRADE THE BRAKES THEY ARE SO BAD) and ride it until it dies. I miss the hell out of two street bikes - my PC800 and my CB250 nighthawk. I'd keep the former stock and take it on long trips, and I'd gut the latter and turn it into a cruiser with full custom fairings.

Sorry - I sort of "fired and forgot." But found this post again and read the responses. While it's appreciated, the PCX 160 should be able to achieve the same speeds as the Rebel, if not a skosh more. And I rode it on all the interstates in and around Atlanta, quite a few times.

The biggest problem on I-285 is the ------ flybys. You know, you'll be doing 70 mph, and all of the sudden a 2004 Impala on 24 inch "rims" will go flying by at 110 mph weaving in and out of traffic. That's a problem. That's trouble for everybody.

The PCX would be more visible than is the Rebel 250. The Rebel 250 is tiny. I'm not interested in going to a bigger engined bike. Been there, done that.

I'm gonna sell the Rebel and my Burgman this spring.

springer1 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 04, 2021 8:46 pm I'm not positive but I think it was the Honda Helix & Reflex 250 cc scoots that were known to sustain Wide Open Throttle highway travel without harm. Was that due to conservative carburation or small valves that restricted RPMs ?

I think the Helix had a small carburetor that choked the intake slightly. The old air cooled VWs did the same thing, so they could be run flat out all day.
I think pre-2018 American PCXs can be run flat out because the governor holds the speed down to 63. I hear the US 160 is regulated to 69. Not having that much money I was unable to confirm.

It seems to me that what you're really wanting is validation of your proposal.

I'm coming up on 52,000 miles on my PCX - many of them spent at WOT - and I've had regular oil changes at twice the book interval. As alluded to by most, it's just the wrong tool for the job. Period. Not even close.

You'll get a lower top speed than you think (even more so with any kind of elevation or headwind) - you'll get lower economy that you think - and once you get it past about 20,000 miles your oil consumption will go up considerably (to the point where you're probably going to need to add 200 to 300mls after making the trip) (that's what my bike burns now at WOT -- and about 1/4 of that when running at 30 MPH).

You need a bigger bike.