The Honda PCX / Forza / ADV150 / SH Forums

My Forza completely shut down on me a couple of weeks ago while riding on the freeway. Thinking it was the fuel pump failing I took it to the Honda dealer. They replaced the fuel pump under the recall and it still wouldn't start. Tech stated it sounded like it had no compression when trying to start it.
They removed the valve cover and noticed one of the intake valves was missing a valve keeper

Corporate Honda tech support desk asked for a description of what happened when the scooter shut down.
- Riding on the freeway about 75mph, scooter completely shut down and it backfired right before I limped over to the shoulder. It would not restart once it shut down.

How could this possibly happen with only 800 miles on the scooter? Hopefully Honda will cover the repair although my warranty expired 4 months ago. This is ridiculous that only having 800 miles on it that it would lose a valve keeper and quite possibly destroyed the engine. Still waiting on Honda's answer about a "goodwill" repair.

Bummer! Things happen, even to well built products. It could be a flaw in a part or an assembly mistake. Hopefully yours is the one in a million and not a new issue that others will encounter too. I also hope Honda will repair it for you even though the warranty is over.

There is nothing to see here and all is well... Honda has hired BagDad Bob as a spokes person for their popular Forza model.
admin will now close this thread

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuu7u-Jq3qs

What's a valve "keeper"...?

gn2 wrote:What's a valve "keeper"...?

It's a valve that you never ever want to get rid of silly.

I've got two of those, they're for a Rolls Royce Merlin engine and were a gift from a relative who worked building them during WW2.

I've also heard some refer to them as valve (spring) retainer locks...



If it happened as the mechanic said, it is an extremely rare and troubling occurrence but it can happen to even the best engines on occasion.

Still, I have to wonder if killing engine power (as in a fuel pump failure?) at 80mph might have had something to do with this?
That's ~7500rpm on an unloaded, non-running, coasting engine....for a few seconds?

The collets (keepers) shouldn't be any problem unless they weren't installed correctly in the first place or valve damage occurs either by piston contact or breakage. The valve spring pressure on them and the fact they are tapered means they get a tighter fit the more the motor is run.

I've seen a valve embedded in a piston upside down like it had a metal mushroom in it once. It turned out the camshaft had a worn lobe so was flattened and this caused the failure as the valve was shutting with a bang instead of smoothly, causing it to break.

If the bike gas done only 800 miles I would put down to poor fitment, if one of the collets had jumped out it might just about lasted till the other jumped out causing the damage.

I would be very surprised if Honda denied this claim. They should cover this even if your Warranty is expired.

mikecalderone wrote:I would be very surprised if Honda denied this claim. They should cover this even if your Warranty is expired.

If they don't, advise them it's covered under the 'sale of goods act' which states any product should be fit for purpose for six years since new on a diminishing scale - irrespective of any warranty. An engine for a mass produced bike from a good manufacturer should not fail like this.

Sure hope this is a isolated case, normaly with Hondas there built is consittant so if one has it they all do! As far a over revving the engine it shouldnt happen as the ecu cuts fuel to limit engine rpm and since its a cvt trans with auto clutch that rules out customer down shifting a gear or two to cause over revving on deceleration. Here in canada honda had a recall on the Honda Fit 2009 for a spring in the lost motion of the VTEC SYSTEM that could break , I performed many of these recalls and only saw one with a broken spring ,honda was very concerned that I found all broken parts of the spring before releasing the car ,otherwise any piece of this broken spring would destroy the engine. I'm sorry to hear of this problem happening to you sure hope honda warantees a new engine for you as yours is now junk. Once a valve keeper comes off the valve falls into the combustion area and is struck by the piston, it destroys the piston ,valve , cylinder wall ,bends the conecting rod ,can crack the cylinder and also do damage to the crankshaft, bearings etc ... At 7500 rpm, you will want a new engine!

Don

iceman wrote:If they don't, advise them it's covered under the 'sale of goods act'.

Not in California it isn't.
But there will probably be similar consumer protection legislation over there.

gn2 wrote:

iceman wrote:If they don't, advise them it's covered under the 'sale of goods act'.

Not in California it isn't.
But there will probably be similar consumer protection legislation over there.

Ah, I usually check the locale of peoples posts - missed it this time

Here's an update, I stopped by the dealership and I was told that Honda authorized them to repair it at no cost. They are very interested to hear the details of what happened. The tech showed me one side of the completely intact keeper but couldn't find the other side and the shim was gone as well. His task by Honda is to locate the other keeper and shim. He will be tearing into the engine to try and locate it. I was very happy to hear that Honda is going to take care of this at no cost to me. It would be nice to get a brand new motor at this point

Great news about Honda doing the right thing. Hope you get a new engine rather than your one repaired.

Most of the time in automotive honda gets the dealer to estimate rebuilding the engine and also a estimate to replace the engine , it's usually cheaper to replace the engine but on motorcycles it's easy to replace the cylinder,( jug) but if it was me I would want a new engine as what I said earlier at 7500-8500 rpm a lot of small pieces of metal went through the engine and there going to be some hidden damage and I'm sure after loosing this first engine you don't want anymore problems with the engine. Honda wants all the pieces to find out what went wrong so they can correct the problem before it happens to the rest of the forzas out there!

Don