First Time Scooter rider using way too much oil

[Scoot Commute]

I have been watching this site for a number of months now with interest and am impressed with the level participation and cooperation with likeminded PCX riders as they enjoy Honda’s wonderful concept in the PCX.
Around March this year I purchased a second hand 2012 PCX 150 with only 240 Km on the clock the overall presentation of the scooter, tyres ect were all consistent with the bike only having travelled this far in a 3 year period.
Since purchase, as a first time scooter rider I have become very impressed with the concept, the way the scooter handles performs, operates and its economy. I would like to think it will become a long term companion.
One thing that does alarm me is the rate at which it consumes oil, upon purchase at 240 Km I would assume it still had its original manufactures oil in the engine and growing concern watched it drop as I continued to run in the engine at respectable rate but by no means pampered it. The engine has zero external oil leaks and is as clean externally as a new bike.
To date my oil usage is:
All oil measurements have been carried out as per the forum topic discussed previously
• Original factory oil, noticed it had dropped & approx. 80ml top up around @500km,
• At 1000km oil was down towards the bottom of the stick. Did an engine oil change and filled with Penrite MC 4ST 10W-40 Synthetic Oil
• At 1700Km oil of the end of stick and topped up with 115ml
• At 2230km oil of the end of stick and topped up with 120ml
I am thinking this oil usage is way way too much and is unnerving thinking the oil level is dropping on each trip that I go on for what essentially is a brand new scooter. At this rate I will pretty much have a complete oil replacement every 4000Km, …..no point changing the oil !
The scooter is used in variety of ways from urban/fast urban and a small amount of high way use all of which it has impressive performance and quite reasonable economy.
Any thoughts or help much appreciated

[homie]

I have stated this to be a similar experience on my 2015 PCX just not to such calculation. Insisting everyone check oil every 1000 miles because the GY6 IMO has proven to me to burn off oil to the bottom of the stick long before I'm thinking to change it so I too just add oil until its mid stick and forget about it.

[honkerman]

I have stated this to be a similar experience on my 2015 PCX just not to such calculation. Insisting everyone check oil every 1000 miles because the GY6 IMO has proven to me to burn off oil to the bottom of the stick long before I'm thinking to change it so I too just add oil until its mid stick and forget about it.

Yep, the GY6 does burn oil. You need to watch it close. This is why the oil change schedule is so important. It's not just the PCX, it's every scooter I've owned or helped service that does this. I think it has to do with the heat generated by the tiny little one-lunger.

Also, to the OP, I don't see where you've actually changed the oil. First oil change should be at 600 miles (1200 km). If you haven't done that already, it's past time. Make sure you check the oil filter. There are oil change walkthroughs in the "technical help" forum in the "how-to" sub-forum, if you wish to do it yourself.

http://www.hondapcx.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=25 is a pictorial walkthrough.

I uploaded a video somewhere along the way that's in the Tech-help section I think, but the pictorial one is excellent.

[Scoot Commute]

Hi Honkerman
Yes I changed the oil right on 1000km as it was already right down near the bottom of the stick.
In lieu of top up I decided to change the oil for a different type.....doesn't seem to make any difference on the consumption rate.

I was just wondering if there were any known issues with the early model ESP's ?

[Pcxdemon]

Oil gets expelled via crank case breather hose in to the air box where recirculates back with air in to the combustion chamber. Only way to fix that is to buy a one way pressure valve and plumb it in in to crankcase breather hose..

[honkerman]

Hi Honkerman
Yes I changed the oil right on 1000km as it was already right down near the bottom of the stick.
In lieu of top up I decided to change the oil for a different type.....doesn't seem to make any difference on the consumption rate.

I was just wondering if there were any known issues with the early model ESP's ?

Nope, typical GY6. Nothing to see here.

[dkazzed]

Is it dropping below the minimum or maximum? Careful not to overfill the oil which is just as detrimental to the engine as having too little oil.

[Scoot Commute]

Yes I never over fill it, just keeps dropping of the bottom of the stick.


Pcxdemon, I like your comment, and is interesting how would I confirm this was happening......is there anywhere I can monitor or check for an oil path back into the engine? (ie would it be possible divert this line overboard short term just to what I am collecting, of course plugging all openings)
If this were the case a PCV valve would be a cheap fix !!!

[waspmike]

a) Could be cylinder blow-by caused by sticky rings.

1 Change fuel and use only Caltex with Techron.

2 Add the appropriate amount of SeaFoam or Auto-RX or Rislone Compression repair in the oil and run as usual for say 500 kms or whatever it says on the bottle.

1 and/or 2 you can do in any order. 1 should be continued until the problem is resolved.

3 If not fixed you'll need at least a new piston and rings.

b) Have you checked the air filter? Could have a wasp's nest or... causing excess vacuum in the airbox.

[iceman]

My '15 PCX was quite good for oil use (I checked the level every month) up to just past 5000 miles when I did my first oil change, then I had a mild oil leak from the drain bolt - now sorted by tightening it some more. I had tightened it but did not want to put too much pressure on and damage the threads, but alas it seems not quite enough when I did the change. Since then after just over a month of use and checking the oil level from cold, it's still at the top mark on the stick (wiped clean a few times, put back in but not screwed in).

[sendler2112]

how would I confirm this was happening

You would see liquid oil stains all over the inside of the airbox. it is probably not this. Do you check the oil with the dipstick inserted as to only touch the top thread, not srewed in, on the center stand? Screwing it in to check, or checking on the side stand will be over filled which could cause the engine to burn through the extra oil at a hifger rate.

[Scoot Commute]

Thanks sendler, I always check oil on flat ground, centre stand and dip stick put in not screwed in.

Last Night
I looked in the air filter box and found only very short track of oil out of breather area to about half way along the length of air box (minimal).
The air intake tube leading to the engine on the inside felt very clean and dry indicating nothing but clean air had been going through it.

I started the engine for a short time with air filter out and could feel a reasonable pulse of air from about 6 inch away from the engine breather hole in the filter box at idle........would you expect it to be breathing this much at idle ???

[sendler2112]

Everything you are seeing is probably near normal. My PCX has alway consumed from full to off the stick in 2,000 miles. Several people posting here have run theirs dry and blown the engine. These modern fuel efficient engines are built loose for max fuel economy.
.
Just keep an eye on it and top it up often.

[homie]

Just keep an eye on it and top it up often.

agreed

[Scoot Commute]

Ok thanks for advise will do, just seems excessive that accumulated top ups between 4000km service intervals will equal the sump refill capacity of 800ml.

I will certainly also look down "waspmike" recommendations for possible gummed up rings

Thanks for inputs

[gn2]

Your oil loss problems could be attributable to the engine not running in properly.
Using fully synthetic in a new engine is usually a mistake, it prevents the engine from breaking in properly.
Synthetic should only be used during break in for engines which are intended to use synthetic from day 1, the PCX isn't.

[j.d.b.]

Your oil loss problems could be attributable to the engine not running in properly.
Using fully synthetic in a new engine is usually a mistake, it prevents the engine from breaking in properly.
Synthetic should only be used during break in for engines which are intended to use synthetic from day 1, the PCX isn't.

If that were true, why do all the major auto companies factory-fill their high-performance motors with synthetic? I have done tons of motor development work with both regular and synthetic oils. The usual difference is less abnormal wear from break-in, on out. No such animal as "intended for synthetic oil OR normal oil usage". We use both in most of our work. The main reason you don't see more companies factory-fill with synthetic is expense. Synthetic is better oil by every measure EXCEPT cost.

[Scoot Commute]

Yes for my problem I am thinking it is not specifically the oil as when I purchased the scooter with 240 km on it would be pretty sure it had Honda's initial oil fill, .......that started disappearing steadily.
I will consider going back to a mineral oil next change.

Thanks

[gn2]

why do all the major auto companies factory-fill their high-performance motors with synthetic?

They don't.

No such animal as "intended for synthetic oil OR normal oil usage".

You missed the qualifying phrase "from day 1"
Running in with synthetic can cause cylinder glazing which results in high oil consumption.

[you you]

why do all the major auto companies factory-fill their high-performance motors with synthetic?

They don't.

No such animal as "intended for synthetic oil OR normal oil usage".

You missed the qualifying phrase "from day 1"
Running in with synthetic can cause cylinder glazing which results in high oil consumption.

Synthetic from new has been an old wives tale for some time now...