The Honda PCX / Forza / ADV150 / SH Forums

If you're thinking about replacing your Forza with a new Burgman 400,
I sold my 2014 Forza with 5500 miles on the clock for a new Burgman 400 in order to get the added carrying capacity. My wife and daughter decided they'd like to ride with me, and together we'd be too close to the listed capacity of the FORZA.

The Burgman looks are still trying to grow on me - as well as the color (all newer Burgs are variations of non colors: shiny grey, matte grey, black, matte black, etc.). The Burg's engine is noticeably rougher until you're well up into the rev band.

I miss that red Honda! Smooth riding scooter - the dash, bar position (after I raised them), build quality are superb. If you grew up owning & loving Honda bikes - this thing just fit all my expectations. Suzukis were also-rans in my motorcycle circle in the 60's and 70's. That's just the way it was. Hondas & maybe Yamahas (all reverse engineered at the time, tho) were the quality bikes if you couldn't afford a BMW. Suzukis and Bridgestones (news to some of you? Yeah, they made a cheap bike.) were second class bikes - and Kawasakis were just stupid fast for children, not serious riders.

The Burgman 400 has 2" more seat room than the Forza - but I swear I do not notice the extra power of the Burgman over the Honda. Might have something to do with the 489lb weight of the Burgman.

If Honda replaces the SilverWing I think I'll be looking hard at it & gladly selling the Burgman - in order to get another Honda back in the garage.
If you're stupid/stuck on brand loyalty (from experience with a Honda) like I am - Well, it's a Honda, or second best.





Buyer's remorse? No, just wish I could have kept the Forza for myself, and have the Burgman for 2-up riding.
Lucky to have a scooter, period.
Fish

I had a Burgman 400 before I traded down to a PCX 150. I absolutely loved my Burgman. The build quality was great, the engine had lots of get up, and the passenger seat was super comfortable for my wife. We could go on the freeway with plenty of power and comfort. I did switch the windshield for a larger Givi, and I installed a Givi tailbox so that I could carry more items. I could go grocery shopping with it and carry 5 bags on it. If you want something bigger than than, then your choice will be a Silverwing or a Burgman 650, which is a highway cruiser.

I found very little that I liked about the Forza 300, from its very wide seat to its low dash, its looks just didn't excite me. So I think you are one of those who has full on Brand loyalty, rather than someone who is actually discontented with having bought a Burgman 400. The Burgman scooter has been described by many as the Cadillac of scooters. That was before BMW decided to see if they could beat everyone at the scooter game by creating a re-badged Kymco with glitz and every kind of accessory you could think of...for a staggering price.

That is not to say that I do not enjoy my PCX 150. It is an ideal scooter for zipping around in the city, except for the lack of ABS, lacklustre tires, and a horrible seat. I can't do anything about the lack of ABS, but I did purchase a nice seat from Thailand, a tall windshield from GIVI, Michelin City Grip tires, and extra driving lights, Now it does everything well except jump on the freeway, that being due to the 65 mph limiter. However, I am saving up to relieve that restriction by installing a NCY variator.

But I still miss my Burgman 400. So, if it is brand loyalty holding you back, just find ways to enjoy your Burgman until you decide to trade up in horsepower. Then you can go for a Silverwing, which is also a nice cruiser scooter. It all comes down to enjoying the ride, whatever it may be on.

WOW FISH!

Really strange that you posted this today! I had a Doc's Appt this morning, and the wife rode along with me. On the way home, we took the Access (Frontage) Road, and passed the Suzuki & Honda Dealers (About a mile apart from each other...).

My wife asked me if I had Buyer's Remorse getting the Honda Forza 300, rather than getting the Suzuki Burgman 400 in Matte Gray. I told her, ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! I am perfectly Happy with the Forza, and have been, since I bought it in Oct. Never really gave the Burgman another thought, until she brought it up today.

I've been a Customer of both the Honda & Suzuki Dealer's, for quite a few years. My SCOOTER SHORT LIST that I had in Sep/Oct, had the Burgman 400 and Honda Forza 300 as my last two Selections. I initially opted for the Burgman, because I had a 2007 Model before, that I put around 20K Miles on, and knew first hand what it Could/Couldn't Do. The Honda Forza, on the other hand was New to me, and I wasn't sure what IT Could/Couldn't Do.

However, the Suzuki Dealer wasn't willing to budge even as much as a $1 off of the MSRP, and Low-Balled me on my Honda Big Ruckus PS250 Trade. THANK YOU FOR THAT! As a result, I headed down the road to the Honda Dealer, to see what they could do for the Forza ABS with my Trade! SUPER DEAL!!!

I was GREATLY Impressed & Surprised what the Forza Could Do! So far, I've NOT found anything that it Couldn't Do, with regards to my needs and what I wanted to do with it. The Forza has actually Surpassed my expectations, and turned out to be the Better Choice for me!

Regarding the Burgman 400..... In 2006, when I first started Riding Scooters, I had a 150cc for a couple of months, then..... MORE POWER! Traded up to a 163cc, to get rid of the Chinese Fall-Apart I was currently riding (I discovered the World of On-Line Scooter Forums, that opened my eyes to WHAT to Buy, and NOT to Buy... my First Scooter was on the Not to Buy List.....). I rode the 163cc for a few more months, then..... MORE POWER! Traded up for a 250cc, which was great! I rode it for a year, then ran into some Scooter Group Folks, that were Serious Long Distance Riders. I kept up with them on Group Rides, however my 250cc was at its Peak Output! MORE POWER! Traded up for the Burgman 400, which hit the groove I needed at the time. Took me anywhere I needed to go, and after 2 years and 20K Miles, I had to quit Riding for a couple of years (Medical Hiatus...).

Just before I Sold the Burgman, I had Beefed Up the Tranny with Malossi Upgrades, to get it ready for a Tow-Pac Kit I was adding. The Malossi Upgrades made it run like a Bat out of Hell, and it was a Beast..... in a Good Way! It was one mean machine. The Tow-Pac didn't work as well as I had expected, and I Sold it. Couple of months later, the Doc gave me a No-Go on Riding. Sold the Burg too!

In your case, you've got two choices:

1. Paint it a Color you prefer, for under $1K, including Paint/Labor & Labor to Remove/Reinstall the Tupperware!

2. Upgrade the Tranny, to something that'll give you that Power you're looking for. Check out Buggy Parts NW https://www.buggypartsnw.com/ and see if they can help you out. Not certain, but I think the Owner is Mike. VERY HELPFUL Gent, and knows his Products & Scooters! Something like a Hit Clutch and maybe a Variator & Slider/Roller Upgrade will hit the spot.

Best of Luck!

Cheers!

BB

I couldn't agree more with Fish. Honda has a serious gap between Forza 300 and Integra 750.

RedBull80 wrote:Το καλοβλέπω αυτό το CB500X... Αν δεν ανακοινώσει κανένα σκούτερ 500GT το 2016 η Honda, εμένα με βλέπω με ετούτο. Από το Honda Forza 300 μέχρι το Honda Integra 750 η εταιρία έχει σοβαρό κενό!

iv'e had 2 burgman 400's and really rate them. there fantastic scoots...when i was looking for new scoot. the price of the forza , and the fact i'd never owned one was more a factor . i got my forza for £4000 new as a pre-reg 0 mile bargain.an the burgman is £5500 so no brainer why it came tops .. an personally there isn't that much in it between them for me ...

If there is a dealer close there is always the SYM 400?

Maxsym 400 discontinued in the UK, don't know about elsewhere.
Disagree with Fish's assertion that Honda were better quality than Suzuki in the 60s and 70s, Honda had plenty reliability issues back then which continue to this day.
The Burgman 400 is a well sorted top quality piece of kit, the Forza is cheaply built with several weaknesses.

Agree that SYM had my attention a couple of years ago. Local Reflex expert and friend was hot on them.
I visited the only area dealer. ...they were an HVAC shop in a small burg with one each of the full SYM line stored in a new garden shed. Mechanic had quit...sales girl, too. 2008 financial dump had caught them out sadly....as it had several dealers in this area of the Midwest.
SYM has an impressive line up......just need some dealer floor space. ...which they do not have.
Fish

Fish,
I could not agree more with you that the Honda Forza is a better bike than the Burgman 400.
As stated in other posts of mine, I had a Burgman 400 and did not like it. The Honda Forza is the best.
I also Had a 2005 Burgman 650 which was a very nice bike (The King of Large Scooters) but heavy and Expensive.
Forza wins my vote!

I test drove a 400 Bergman before the Forza. The engine was like a bag of spanners.

gn2 wrote:Maxsym 400 discontinued in the UK, don't know about elsewhere.
Disagree with Fish's assertion that Honda were better quality than Suzuki in the 60s and 70s, Honda had plenty reliability issues back then which continue to this day.
The Burgman 400 is a well sorted top quality piece of kit, the Forza is cheaply built with several weaknesses.

Agree with you here, apart from the the original cubs the Honda reliability thing was an illusion in the 70s and you are all living on the marketing hype. None of us had Hondas because they were frankly boring. And slow. And four stroke.

And they got worse during the eighties. I think they survived on hype that you are all still sucking up.

Council estate. I'm a 17 year old, my KE175 starts up first kick as does my friends. RD200 and RD400e zips of along with a KH250. Little Honda 125, brand new wouldn't kick over. Xl 125 something or other underpowered bit of shit. Orange it was. We wouldn't have pissed on it if it was on fire.

Hey Fish, I agree whole heartedly with you regarding the Burgman colors over the last few years. That said, I'm a former Burgman owner (2011) who is not fully sold on the Forza. Let me know if you would like to trade.

I've been lurking for some time but ironically I've been looking at both the Burg 400 and Forza 300 as a future replacement for my PCX 125. They've both got many positives with the odd negative, for example while a few people claim the Forza is great as is I'm a little disappointed it didn't see an update yet such as improvements to headlights, suspension and possibly even an increase in engine size, although surely it requires some work soon due to only being Euro 3 compliant. The Burgman 400 has certainly got many positives although the main thing I dislike is the comparatively short service intervals which I'm yet to quite figure out why.

I also think Honda would quite well to do a model between the silverwing and forza, something that sits under the A2 licence maximum power limitation (35KW/47bhp).

If my memory serves me well the seventies jap bikes all had similar build qualities, the key factor was how you looked after them ( like todays bikes really).
Ive had a burgman 400, great machine, but they do have their problems,( clutch, frame/wheel corrosion).

What about the burgman 200 ? It is only 30kilos heavier than pcx150...So i would imagine its power to weight would be very good. This is a bike I would consider eventually. It is a tad boring in the looks department in my opinion though.

Does anyone know or have a reason for the service interval on the Burgman 400 being half of the Forza?

Because Honda have increaed the service mileage on their newer machines as a benefit to owners.
The Burgman 400 is an older design.
Piaggio kicked off the longer interval trend and it seems some manufacturers are competing for longer mileage intervals.
The only bike/scooter with longer service intervals than Honda is the new Triumph Street Twin at 10,000 miles.
The time element is the same at one year for them all, so unless you do big mileages the longer mileage interval is of no benefit.

I agree about for some it might be irrelevant but I think by there nature of being maxi scooters people are more likely to be riding higher mileage on them than say my PCX, it just seemed low for Burgman.

gn2 wrote:Because Honda have increaed the service mileage on their newer machines as a benefit to owners.
The Burgman 400 is an older design.
Piaggio kicked off the longer interval trend and it seems some manufacturers are competing for longer mileage intervals.
The only bike/scooter with longer service intervals than Honda is the new Triumph Street Twin at 10,000 miles.
The time element is the same at one year for them all, so unless you do big mileages the longer mileage interval is of no benefit.

10k is reasonable isn't it? 20k for my (utterly fantastic) Korean daily driver. I can see that.

you you wrote:10k is reasonable isn't it? 20k for my (utterly fantastic) Korean daily driver. I can see that.

So long as all the consumables can make it to 10,000 miles its pretty good.
Problem with the 8000 miles on the Forza is that the rear tyre and brake pads are likely to need changing before the 8000 mile service and the pads are almost impossible to check without some fairly significant disassembly.