The Honda PCX / Forza / ADV150 / SH Forums

Hi.
I'm trying to solve a problem here, but I don't and can't order the LED version's service manual, I need help from those who have it.
My problem is a complex one so let me break it down.
I've gone back to stock setting after the 164cc kit from Yuminashi does not work out so well anymore.
I ordered an entirely new engine, from cylinder to piston to rings. I got everything right except for one part. The camshaft. My Honda vendor got me the camshaft from the LED series (2014 up to now). That camshaft's part number is : 14100 - K35 - J00. It's the same for both the 125 LED and 150 LED, I have checked.
The problem is my PCX is a 2012 version, and my engine's camshaft's number is : 14100 - KZR - 600.
I didn't notice this at first, and I installed the K35 camshaft in my engine and it does not feel right. Valve clearance is correct and everything but the engine runs really rich at low rpm and the entire thing feels lazy, doesn't want to make RPM, typical symptoms for a rich running engine. I figure the ECM fuel map must fit the camshaft profile.
I've ordered the right camshaft, but I want to be sure, so I checked my PCX version's service manual and got this specs.
+ Intake, opens 1mm at 5 degrees BTDC, closes 1mm at 35 degrees ABDC.
+ Exhaust, opens 1mm at 30 degrees BBDC, closes 1mm at 0 degree ATDC.

I really need this specs, which can easily be found under the Specs chapter in the LED version's service manual. So if anyone can help me check the difference in cam specs, that would help me a lot. Thank you.

Alright... you are a whisper'er stand by

Unfortunately I only have the 2013 service manual so I have the same settings as you do. Sorry. I am guessing that what you want is the specs on the 2015, which should be an LED version. Homie, don't you have a 2015 manual, or at least the addendum for the 2015?

...........

The PCX runs in closed loop at low revs and below 80% load - and the closed loop is regulated by the O2 sensor. Even if the basic ECM program would be off, the feedback from the sensor should correct the rich running via feedback to the trim tables.
I suggest to try to diagnose the O2 sensor. Would it be possible that you have disconnected it? Also long term overly rich running can destroy it.
The service manual describes the proper way to diagnose it.

Oyabun wrote:The PCX runs in closed loop at low revs and below 80% load - and the closed loop is regulated by the O2 sensor. Even if the basic ECM program would be off, the feedback from the sensor should correct the rich running via feedback to the trim tables.
I suggest to try to diagnose the O2 sensor. Would it be possible that you have disconnected it? Also long term overly rich running can destroy it.
The service manual describes the proper way to diagnose it.

Wasn't this guy running carburettor set up on his pcx? Probably that killed his O2 sensor.

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lolofigo wrote:

Oyabun wrote:The PCX runs in closed loop at low revs and below 80% load - and the closed loop is regulated by the O2 sensor. Even if the basic ECM program would be off, the feedback from the sensor should correct the rich running via feedback to the trim tables.
I suggest to try to diagnose the O2 sensor. Would it be possible that you have disconnected it? Also long term overly rich running can destroy it.
The service manual describes the proper way to diagnose it.

Wasn't this guy running carburettor set up on his pcx? Probably that killed his O2 sensor.

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Probably. My procedure for fixing problems is checking for error codes in the ECM first. As I cannot see any codes for malfunctioning o2 sensor, I move on to other possible areas. I'll replace the o2 sensor to see if it gets better.

Hi Homie thanks for helping. As I can see the specs from your manual is the same as mine, not a good sign. However, I see that your manual specifies the piston bore is 58mm which is strange since all the LEDs I know have 57.2mm piston to drop the cc down to 149 due to import duties problem with bikes over 150cc in some countries (153 got taxed hard in my country). Can you go one step further and check if your manual is for a LED scooter? That'd help me a lot. Thanks in advance for helping a brother out.
Cheers.

Mel46 wrote:Unfortunately I only have the 2013 service manual so I have the same settings as you do. Sorry. I am guessing that what you want is the specs on the 2015, which should be an LED version. Homie, don't you have a 2015 manual, or at least the addendum for the 2015?

Hey.
I know people in Honda and I can pull some strings but it'd take too long. I figure my chance of getting help on this forum would be much higher.

Here you go, sorry I didn't check back on this faster. Yes this first release SM April 2014 does cover the 2015 Honda PCX150 LED model. "This manual describes the service procedures for the PCX150" No mention of the 125cc models in my version. Feel free to ask for more information/pictures from the SM anytime.

Replacing a fuel pump and running around finding someone to mount my new rubber today, raining so its a good day to be down

I suggested to check the O2 sensor, as the cam seems to be identical. And it does not necessary drops a cault code if connected, but not functioning properly. Also in case you have used the carbs without removing the O2 sensor there is a high chance that it got contaminated and its performance degraded.
My fault finding is not to automatically chance everything, but to use diagnostics. Runnig rich can be caused by other sensor malfunctions also (eg. Cyl Head Temp Sensor) but the most typical cuse is the O2 sensor.
The 149cc version is only made for Asia (due to tax issues as you have also pointed out),. Rest if the world uses the 153, as it is a requirement in a few countries to be above 150cc to legally use the highway.

Oyabun wrote:I suggested to check the O2 sensor, as the cam seems to be identical. And it does not necessary drops a cault code if connected, but not functioning properly. Also in case you have used the carbs without removing the O2 sensor there is a high chance that it got contaminated and its performance degraded.
My fault finding is not to automatically chance everything, but to use diagnostics. Runnig rich can be caused by other sensor malfunctions also (eg. Cyl Head Temp Sensor) but the most typical cuse is the O2 sensor.
The 149cc version is only made for Asia (due to tax issues as you have also pointed out),. Rest if the world uses the 153, as it is a requirement in a few countries to be above 150cc to legally use the highway.

I got one O2 sensor already waiting to be put in tomorrow. I'll report on the results.

The ECT sensor is doing fine, I have a diagnostics machine that reads off feed from the ECM. Running stable at 90 degrees C with stock radiator cap, fan and Honda coolant.

I noticed this problem once when I go back to stock from a 60mm 125 head setup, in a very short period of time for 3 weeks. Back then the engine behaves just like now, kinda lazy. The O2 sensor is not used with a carburetor back then but let us see.

If a new O2 sensor cannot fix it then I'll change the cam back to the KZR one.

homie wrote:Here you go, sorry I didn't check back on this faster. Yes this first release SM April 2014 does cover the 2015 Honda PCX150 LED model. "This manual describes the service procedures for the PCX150" No mention of the 125cc models in my version. Feel free to ask for more information/pictures from the SM anytime.

Replacing a fuel pump and running around finding someone to mount my new rubber today, raining so its a good day to be down

Thanks a lot for helping so quickly.

I'll be sure to ask if I need more help.

Cheers.

Oyabun wrote:I suggested to check the O2 sensor, as the cam seems to be identical. And it does not necessary drops a cault code if connected, but not functioning properly. Also in case you have used the carbs without removing the O2 sensor there is a high chance that it got contaminated and its performance degraded.
My fault finding is not to automatically chance everything, but to use diagnostics. Runnig rich can be caused by other sensor malfunctions also (eg. Cyl Head Temp Sensor) but the most typical cuse is the O2 sensor.
The 149cc version is only made for Asia (due to tax issues as you have also pointed out),. Rest if the world uses the 153, as it is a requirement in a few countries to be above 150cc to legally use the highway.

Back to cam a little.
It's very mysterious. Nobody knows for sure. Of course the specs on the service manual looks the same but how about duration, cam profile, total lift etc.
I'm a materialist myself and I operate based on the belief that if everything is stock, it must behaves like stock. There's no way to read a cam profile except taking it apart and read it on a cam machine so I have to rely on part codes. That's a damn shame.
So yeah, my advice to you guys is to be sure to order the CORRECT part for your engine. At the very least it eliminates the headaches and guess work.

Update. Apparently there's no more kzr camshaft left. Honda has moved on to K35, which means the 2 are the same. So it's not the camshaft. This is what I feared.

Now it's all about the sensors.
Ordered a new oxygen sensor. It's on the way.
TP sensor looking fine. Taking a look to that later.
Man I'm afraid of sensors and electronics. I don't understand a damn thing about them.
I'll report on the results of a new oxygen sensor

homie wrote:Here you go, sorry I didn't check back on this faster. Yes this first release SM April 2014 does cover the 2015 Honda PCX150 LED model. "This manual describes the service procedures for the PCX150" No mention of the 125cc models in my version. Feel free to ask for more information/pictures from the SM anytime.

Hey can you recheck the valve clearance value for me?

Replacing a fuel pump and running around finding someone to mount my new rubber today, raining so its a good day to be down

Hey can you recheck the valve clearance value for me?
In my manual it's 0.1mm for the intake and 0.24mm for exhaust

............. 2015 Honda PCX 150 per the service manual

homie wrote:............. 2015 Honda PCX 150 per the service manual

Thank you very much. I notice there's no Thank button on this forum. Strange.