The Honda PCX / Forza / ADV150 / SH Forums

I have had the ncy rollers 13g for a while but never got round to installing them as I do not have the Honda tool.

I decided to give it a go with an impact gun while doing the 7500 mile service.

The install was easy enough, but I used the impact gun to tighten the nut back on. I took the scooter for a test run, got up to 50 and the scooter came to a halt. I pushed the Pcx a mile back home and removed the variator cover for inspection.

The nut holding the drive face came loose. This time I applied high strength threadlock, using the impact gun to tighten the nut it seemed fine. Went for another spin, this time I heard werid noises. Turned around and got back home .

Somehow the nut on the drive face will not tighten enough. The nut backed off allowing the drive face fins to grind the varitor​ cover.

The cover and drive face are completely damaged. I took the opportunity to order the ncy drive face and variator. Just order $100 of replacement parts. Mainly the variator cover was the bulk of the cost.

My concern is how the hell do I tighten the nut that goes on the variator as the impact wrench tightened it on all the way.

I had mine come loose when we test rode it as well. You must use the holding tool and tightened it down while making sure the belt is as close to the variator as possible. Don't use the impact gun until you have tightened the nut enough and the belt is close between the drive face and variator. You have to make sure the belt is not loose before calling it a day and riding off somewhere. To make sure, use the holding tool while tightening the nut.
https://www.amazon.com/Motion-Pro-08-00 ... lding+tool

There are others here who can explain it better. Jump in any time whisperers.

You may have ruined the crank threads by overtightening. Personally, I punch-mark both the nut
and the variator plate before removing the nut, then use those marks not to overtight that nut (using a 3.5A gun. not the bigger 7.5A one, with great precaution.

Anybody not familiar with those guns can easily destroy cranks with overtightening.
The recommended Honda tools cost an arm (most experienced mechanics rather use the 3.5A
gun, with proper restraint - after a time, one gets a 'feel' for it).

To check that your crank is still good, just try a NEW nut on it. Any resistance= ruined
crankshaft threads, won't hold.

Proper torque, M14 nut, should be around 40 lbf.ft. (I have not used a torque wrench for years, just
the 'feel' method. No problem to date.)

Better to punch mark the crank, too (see above).

(I've been having big problems with that edit button for months - my native language is
french and errors come easy...)

I ordered a new nut so I'll check when it arrives. The old one goes on ok. That motion pro holding tool linked will not work on the Pcx. I ordered that a while back and it does not fit.

The ncy drive face does not have any holes to hold the drive face so what is the right way to do it?

Best case scenario you pinched the belt when you tightened actually leaving yourself under torqued thus the failure. Second best senario you striped the nut. Worse case you striped the crackshaft threads. This is a hard lesson for all who are fortunate enough to read. Impact wrenches are for loosening only. You don't need a special holding tool to knock the variator nut off with an impact wrench. You do need to hold the face somehow when retightening and you must do it by hand with a torque wrench to 44 ft lbs. This is a wet torque meaning you apply a drop of motor oil to the crank shaft threads and begin to tighten rotating the belt as you tighten so it does not get pinched between the faces.

Sorry you are having this teaching moment, for others and myself to learn something from your peril you must not be ashamed and follow up. For all who read this NEVER use an impact wrench as a torque wrench. And for me, I must know what strips first... the nut or the crank shaft. In a perfect world the nut would be designed to strip out before the crank shaft.

I think Mel has an accurate depiction.Make sure you pinch in the clutch so the belt rides further up the variator.Then properly torque the nut metal to metal not to rubber.

I just checked the crank thread and splines, it is ok. I'm looking at online pics of the ncy drive face and there is no where to hold it while torquing it.

I'm thinking of taking it to a Honda dealer to reinstall. Any idea how how many hour labor the charge would be?

I have a rubber wedge that I use to open up the driven pulley, thus permitting an easy
assembly of the drive one. With the end nut snug, a few short bursts of 3.5A gun will
tighten it just good... provided you have the skill, of course.

outlander wrote:I just checked the crank thread and splines, it is ok. I'm looking at online pics of the ncy drive face and there is no where to hold it while torquing it.

I'm thinking of taking it to a Honda dealer to reinstall. Any idea how how many hour labor the charge would be?

You can do this, Its true the NCY drive face does not have the holes to apply the tool. No doubt a choice made to lessen the cost of manufacturing. But all you need is a trip to harbor freight for a large oil filter tool (a big one with the adjustable rubber belt). Also they sell a huge torque wrench for less than 20 dollars. Placing the oil filter tool is tricky but I've done it many times to hold the face while achieving the 44 foot LBS.

Thanks for the strap wrench tip. Interesting though I've watched about 10 variator install vids on YouTube and all of them use an impact wrench with no problem.

outlander wrote:Thanks for the strap wrench tip. Interesting though I've watched about 10 variator install vids on YouTube and all of them use an impact wrench with no problem.

I've seen them too, my impact wrench delivers an uncontrollable 240 ft-lbs I think they get away with it because the variator is taking the impact as it turns with the wrench but so MIGHT be the crank, piston arm, all the bearings involved, clutch, final drive etc. That's a lot of shock to the Precious to take that short cut for tightening. Come to hear myself state this I don't think I will use it to REMOVE the nut from now on either

outlander wrote:Thanks for the strap wrench tip. Interesting though I've watched about 10 variator install vids on YouTube and all of them use an impact wrench with no problem.

I use impact gun no problems. Just undo both variator and clutch and press on torque spring move pulleys apart and wedge the belt as far as you can into the clutch. It will allow more slack on the belt in the variator and both variator and driven face will touch without any gap. When tightening use impact gun just make sure rear wheel is off the ground on centre stand.

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Homie, be careful with that 240 tons gun, indeed. Might send the planet spinning the other way
around.

Other people have used smaller ones for years with no problem at all. It's just a matter of knowing how to use tools properly.

Never use an impact gun to set CVT nuts, or any important nut.
If you've been doing so for years - you're shooting at your feet - and so far you've missed.
Don't be lazy, use a holding tool and a torque wrench......But, it IS your scooter and your $.
"Damaged my scooter" heading will get a lot of views on any forum !!
Fish

Impact guns, even the smaller ones, must be used with great care. Some people are skilled enough
to use them, some are not. Fell free never to use them.

Using an impact wrench in most cases is fine especially for removal purposes. There are things to know about impact wrenches. There are many types ie air, portable , electric. Depending on what the task is. There are blows per second specs, air psi, and etc , foot lbs , inch lbs etc. Knowing this will help with your selection . Keep in mind most of the shock energy is applied to the nut and then followed by the shaft. Keeping the shaft free will allow the energy to be dispersed with less vibration and energy.Some will fear that the shaft gears where applicable will be harmed , but that would be rare if the gears are worth a shit and lash is correct.In this installation I would lightly run down the nut with the impact and then finish the last turn with the proper torque wrench making sure the belt is not affecting the tightening as is in this case I believe. Like stated above , once you have experience with using these tools you get a feel for torque as you gain experience and tightening can be done often by feel. Its always safe to follow the book but experience folks often get it right by feel.I have tightened hundreds of bolts on engines without a torque wrench and have yet to have a problem with any of them.Sometimes, however it is most important to use torque values and tightening sequences that are critical to proper installation of some parts like cylinder heads, cam shafts, water pumps etc.

I agree. After years of loosening/tightening nuts&bolts, 40 ft-pounds becomes no big deal - by the
feel of it. I have checked this on cylinder heads numerous times, using reference marks.

But I wouldn't recommend the 'feel' method to any crappy wrench.

I have used that holding tool for taking it off. That belt might be a better option for putting it on though.

outlander wrote:I have had the ncy rollers 13g for a while but never got round to installing them as I do not have the Honda tool.

I decided to give it a go with an impact gun while doing the 7500 mile service.

The install was easy enough, but I used the impact gun to tighten the nut back on. I took the scooter for a test run, got up to 50 and the scooter came to a halt. I pushed the Pcx a mile back home and removed the variator cover for inspection.

The nut holding the drive face came loose. This time I applied high strength threadlock, using the impact gun to tighten the nut it seemed fine. Went for another spin, this time I heard werid noises. Turned around and got back home .

Somehow the nut on the drive face will not tighten enough. The nut backed off allowing the drive face fins to grind the varitor​ cover.

The cover and drive face are completely damaged. I took the opportunity to order the ncy drive face and variator. Just order $100 of replacement parts. Mainly the variator cover was the bulk of the cost.

My concern is how the hell do I tighten the nut that goes on the variator as the impact wrench tightened it on all the way.

Ffs don't use an impact gun for tightening (things back on).