The Honda PCX / Forza / ADV150 / SH Forums

Are Honda not missing a trick here?
Why is the PCX fitted with a lowly 9kw engine when it could have their 10.5 kw Forza engine.
The extra oomph plus the 30kg lighter bike would give great acceleration and perhaps 75mph top end.
The PCX is Honda’s best seller and I think it’s light weight is one of the main reasons why.
The extra power would make it awesome.
Am I missing something? Or is there a reason this isn’t available.
They could name it the PCX S and charge a few hundred more.
I’m sure it would be a winner.

PCX engine designed in 2009, Forza was a number of years later.
At the PCX launch it was inserted into the range alongside the much higher spec S-wing 125.
If the PCX had the full 11kw allowed for 125s in the EU, its possible S-wing sales would have taken more of a hit.

As far as a PCX-S is concerned, I would like to see a 200cc PCX with at least 20hp and a 12 litre fuel tank.

Hi gn2, thanks for the previous model info.
I agree a PCX 200 would be a great bike but with the UK 125 Learner limit, there would be too small a market here and a new frame would need to be designed for the large power increase.
The PCX 125 could easily be adapted to take the slightly more powerful Forsa engine and the 125cc Learner market is much larger.

I think the engine has to be proportional to the rest of the bike.
Think about why manufacturers don't put 1000cc honda R1 engine into a PCX, or hayabusa engine on some other small bike.

It's just not safe. They don't want people to go faster than the suspension, the frame, the brakes can handle.

A PCX with a larger engine, would be heavier, hence would need more brakes, bigger wheels and tires, heavier suspension, stronger frame... and it would be a Forza at that point, which is what honda already has.

Why do you think would Honda NOT put a 50cc engine into a Forza bike? Same reasons... it would not be proportional and there is no good argument to do that, on many levels - from market, financial to legal and technical reasons...

In that case, why not have a Forza 200? If you can't bring the PCX engine up, then make a Forza with a smaller engine...and I am NOT talking about a Forza 125, which to me is less of a bike than a PCX 150...sorry, but it's TRUE. The Forza frame is stiffer, the brakes are larger, and the bike in general is too much bike for a 125cc engine. I don't really like the style of the Forza, but it is already set up for a larger engine. Either beef up the PCX and then upgrade the engine, or just upgrade the engine of the Forza 125. They could sell them in the United States and other countries that dont have that 125cc engine/license restriction.

Inoplanetyanin wrote:I think the engine has to be proportional to the rest of the bike.
Think about why manufacturers don't put 1000cc honda R1 engine into a PCX, or hayabusa engine on some other small bike.

It's just not safe. They don't want people to go faster than the suspension, the frame, the brakes can handle.

A PCX with a larger engine, would be heavier, hence would need more brakes, bigger wheels and tires, heavier suspension, stronger frame... and it would be a Forza at that point, which is what honda already has.

Why do you think would Honda NOT put a 50cc engine into a Forza bike? Same reasons... it would not be proportional and there is no good argument to do that, on many levels - from market, financial to legal and technical reasons...

Burgman 125 and 200 are essentially the same
Gilera Runner 125 and 200 were essentially the same
Vespa GTS125, 300 and 300HiPower are essentially the same chassis, same wheels, same suspension, same brakes
PCX 200 could be done very easily at minimum cost.

So what is the horsepower of the Forza 125? There is little reason why it could not be bumped to 200cc without modifying anything else. If Honda doesn't want to bump up the PCX, why not a Forza 200 in the United States?

All 125s sold in Europe have a maximum power output of 11kw
Why a 200 Forza when you can already have a 300?

Because there are riders in the United States that can't handle a 300cc engine but could handle a 200cc one, my wife included. She loved the idea of the Burgman 200 but didn't like the styling. She absolutely loved the Burgman 400 but it was too much bike for her to handle in corners and parking. The compromise would have been a Burgman 200 that was a smaller version of the 400, instead of a new style that had a high rear end.

When the Forza 300 hit the showrooms we went over to try one. It was just too big for her. If a Forza 125 is proportionally smaller she could handle it. Thus the idea of a 200cc version. Keep in mind that we presently have pcx 150s, so a 125cc would be a step down.

im surprised no1 as attempted a forza in pcx usually in uk people put a different engine in on a gilera runner 125

Mel46 wrote:Because there are riders in the United States that can't handle a 300cc engine but could handle a 200cc one, my wife included. She loved the idea of the Burgman 200 but didn't like the styling. She absolutely loved the Burgman 400 but it was too much bike for her to handle in corners and parking. The compromise would have been a Burgman 200 that was a smaller version of the 400, instead of a new style that had a high rear end.

When the Forza 300 hit the showrooms we went over to try one. It was just too big for her. If a Forza 125 is proportionally smaller she could handle it. Thus the idea of a 200cc version. Keep in mind that we presently have pcx 150s, so a 125cc would be a step down.

Current Forza 125 is the same scooter as the 300, only difference is the engine.
Burgman 200 is same scooter as the Burgman 125.

Suzuki didnt send the Burgman 125 to the United States. If they had, few would have bought them. Our roads are long and sometimes very empty. Getting where civilization is becomes a long journey at 55 mph.

There is something about the styling on the Burgman 200 that does not appeal to many Burgman owners. As for the Forza, the styling on the new ones is good, but if it has a smaller engine (125cc) it should be lighter. I owned a car once that normally had a V8 engine, but in the 1970s gas was a problem, so the manufacturers put 4 cylinder engines in instead of V8s. That car was a slug. It strained to keep up with traffic. Same could be said for a heavy. Ike with a small engine.

2019 Forza
125 = 159kg
300 = 182kg

Burgman 125/200 styling not popular anywhere, its not a good seller.

...and I thought my wife and I were the only ones that didn't like the style of the Burgman 200! What were they thinking?!

I still think a PCX 200 would solve a lot, but I know that won't happen because of where it is in the Honda lineup. No matter what frame the 125cc is put in, it won't be that popular here in the United States, so that means to me that the smallest engine for enjoying the ride must be the 150cc, but that is never going to be enough for those who want to climb on and just enjoy the ride without worrying about the inclines. For that kind of comfortable riding you would need at least a 200cc. I liked the Reflex, but the Forza doesn't seem as sleek.