The Honda PCX / Forza / ADV150 / SH Forums

USA has announced higher amounts of ethanol will be put in US fuel supplies. Get ready for less energy for the buck not to mention water issues that these HONDA engines may encounter.So if you get some more stumbling and running issues especially in high humid climates you might have a possible cause.

easyrider wrote:USA has announced higher amounts of ethanol will be put in US fuel supplies. Get ready for less energy for the buck not to mention water issues that these HONDA engines may encounter.So if you get some more stumbling and running issues especially in high humid climates you might have a possible cause.

ETHANOLKAOS.

sic

easyrider wrote:USA has announced higher amounts of ethanol will be put in US fuel supplies. Get ready for less energy for the buck not to mention water issues that these HONDA engines may encounter.So if you get some more stumbling and running issues especially in high humid climates you might have a possible cause.

All Honda scooters and motorcycles are designed for use with up to 10% ethanol.
So long as the fuel has 10% or less ethanol you will have absolutely zero issues.

The problem may be that there is talk of raising the amount at the pump to 15%. If they do that then only cars marked FLEXFUEL will work without problems.

easyrider wrote:USA has announced higher amounts of ethanol will be put in US fuel supplies. Get ready for less energy for the buck not to mention water issues that these HONDA engines may encounter.So if you get some more stumbling and running issues especially in high humid climates you might have a possible cause.

Don't understand the remark about water issues - 10% laced fuels now mean that dry gas stuff is no longer needed according to my mechanics. The ethanol deals with any water in the tank....much the way dry gas additives used to.

What am I missing?
Fish

Dry gas is alcohol..Alcohol absorbs water. The concept of adding dry gas to a tank already contaminated helps put the water into solution so the car can burn it. Ethanol is same thing but it attracts water from the air and when it gets too much it causes phase separation which has deleterious effects on combustion , injectors , and general running issues . Phase separation can be explained by doing an internet search .

easyrider wrote:Dry gas is alcohol..Alcohol absorbs water. The concept of adding dry gas to a tank already contaminated helps put the water into solution so the car can burn it. Ethanol is same thing but it attracts water from the air and when it gets too much it causes phase separation which has deleterious effects on combustion , injectors , and general running issues . Phase separation can be explained by doing an internet search .

Thanks. Still learning.
"Phased separation"....my sister in law and her husband tried that. Not working so well.
Fish

Ethanol in fuel attracts no more water into the fuel system than fuel with no ethanol.
There will always be some water in your fuel tank, best way to avoid it is keep the tank full of fuel when not in use for long periods.

I'm a firm believer in "Startron" fuel additive . . .. Been using it for years. Used it in my outboard motor gas years ago also.

I can be assured that when I try to start my lawn mowers or bikes (if they've been sitting a while . . . like during the Winter) they will start . . .. Keeping the battery charge up to snuff helps too.



The thing that troubles me about the E15 though is engine temperature, engine knock, and effect on fuel system parts like rubber or some metals (especially on older machines).

Let's face it . . . other than environmental concerns the "Agro" industry wants a bigger share in the fuel sales . . ..

That said I think it's fuelish to be planting crops to burn as fuel for transportation when people are going hungry in this world. Maybe not in your backyard but hunger still exists.

Better yet I think the focus should be on continuing to advance electric energy sources sparked by environmentally friendly generating plants (hydro electric, wind, solar, and even nuclear as long as it's carefully controlled and open to new innovations and disposition of spent fuel). Mass transit needs to be restored and renewed where practical and fossil fuels could remain an energy source for smaller vehicles like motorcycles, scooters, and MOPEDS. Although 2-strokes do make sense in farm tools or small engines as used in MOPEDS the emissions will still be an issue to contend with.

Time for more coffee . . ..

I don’t want more alcohol in my gas. And I don't want an electric vehicle.

I’ll take an electric bike or car all day long when they perfect this technology… Fill up once a week for 5 minutes while ordering a Starbucks coffee.

https://newatlas.com/piech-4-minute-40- ... ing/59597/

Ethanol in fuel attracts no more water into the fuel system than fuel with no ethanol.

Hate to disagree, but, putting on my chemical engineer hat, ethanol is far more hygroscopic than gasoline, and will actively pull water vapor from the air.

In the old days we would add ethanol in the form of "dry-gas" because ethanol is miscible in both water and gasoline. Any water in the tank (within reason) would thus be allowed to mix into the gasoline and flow through that non-fussy carburetor (with the notable exception of the damned dual SU's on my '70 Volvo) and so be removed.

We do not need dry-gas now - Here in Massachusetts, you cannot get anything but e-10 gasoline at a regular filling station. The gas already has "dry-gas" in it.

I'm not wicked worried about the gas in the tank absorbing excessive water while sitting around - the gas cap is, after all, sealed. I'm more worried about winter storage, during which time the gasoline will deteriorate and form deposits (varnishes more than sludges). I'm not worried about the inside of the tank, but the inside of the fuel injector is a different story. I use Stabil for winter storage, and ride the scoot enough during the season to not worry about it otherwise.

GeorgeSK wrote:

Ethanol in fuel attracts no more water into the fuel system than fuel with no ethanol.

Hate to disagree, but, putting on my chemical engineer hat, ethanol is far more hygroscopic than gasoline, and will actively pull water vapor from the air

But I wrote "fuel system" not "fuel".
There will always be some water in the fuel system whether there's ethanol in the fuel or not.
It can be a real problem in diesels.

Chevron super-premium (94 octane) is the only fuel I can buy here that has zero ethanol.

I use this zero ethanol in the winter as a tank will last me 2 to 3 months, but I use regular 87 octane in the spring/summer/fall

If we get the higher 15% ethanol, I'll likely use a mixture of the two to lower the ethanol closer to 10%

Once again the consumer gets in the back. Less bang for the buck in fuel economy. Not about saving the environment in the US but to reimburse the agricultural industry for recent impacts on newly importing and exporting policies.