Ethanol on the rise BEWARE
Moderator: Modsquad
- easyrider
- Frequent Poster
- Posts: 1597
- Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2015 6:23 pm
- Year: 2013
- Color: blk
- Location: Long Island , NY, Tampa, Ft laud
Ethanol on the rise BEWARE
USA has announced higher amounts of ethanol will be put in US fuel supplies. Get ready for less energy for the buck not to mention water issues that these HONDA engines may encounter.So if you get some more stumbling and running issues especially in high humid climates you might have a possible cause.
- you you
- What's a wot?
- Posts: 10000
- Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2012 5:37 pm
- Location: Between Lulu and Chichi
Re: Ethanol on the rise BEWARE
easyrider wrote:USA has announced higher amounts of ethanol will be put in US fuel supplies. Get ready for less energy for the buck not to mention water issues that these HONDA engines may encounter.So if you get some more stumbling and running issues especially in high humid climates you might have a possible cause.
ETHANOLKAOS.
sic
Re: Ethanol on the rise BEWARE
All Honda scooters and motorcycles are designed for use with up to 10% ethanol.easyrider wrote:USA has announced higher amounts of ethanol will be put in US fuel supplies. Get ready for less energy for the buck not to mention water issues that these HONDA engines may encounter.So if you get some more stumbling and running issues especially in high humid climates you might have a possible cause.
So long as the fuel has 10% or less ethanol you will have absolutely zero issues.
Four decades on two wheels has taught me nothing, all advice given is guaranteed to be wrong
- Mel46
- Forum Benefactor
- Posts: 6959
- Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:13 pm
- Year: 2013
- Color: red PCX
- Location: Dallas, Ga USA
Re: Ethanol on the rise BEWARE
The problem may be that there is talk of raising the amount at the pump to 15%. If they do that then only cars marked FLEXFUEL will work without problems.
Currently own:
Red 2013 Honda PCX150
Givi tall windshield & tailbox - Lots of extra lights
Custom seat from Thailand - Bad Boy Airhorn
Takegawa Lowering Shocks - Michelin City Grip Tires
Headlight assy upgraded to LEDs w/HS5 main bulbs
NCY variator, drive face, and rollers
Red 2013 Honda PCX150
Givi tall windshield & tailbox - Lots of extra lights
Custom seat from Thailand - Bad Boy Airhorn
Takegawa Lowering Shocks - Michelin City Grip Tires
Headlight assy upgraded to LEDs w/HS5 main bulbs
NCY variator, drive face, and rollers
Re: Ethanol on the rise BEWARE
Don't understand the remark about water issues - 10% laced fuels now mean that dry gas stuff is no longer needed according to my mechanics. The ethanol deals with any water in the tank....much the way dry gas additives used to.easyrider wrote:USA has announced higher amounts of ethanol will be put in US fuel supplies. Get ready for less energy for the buck not to mention water issues that these HONDA engines may encounter.So if you get some more stumbling and running issues especially in high humid climates you might have a possible cause.
What am I missing?
Fish
- easyrider
- Frequent Poster
- Posts: 1597
- Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2015 6:23 pm
- Year: 2013
- Color: blk
- Location: Long Island , NY, Tampa, Ft laud
Re: Ethanol on the rise BEWARE
Dry gas is alcohol..Alcohol absorbs water. The concept of adding dry gas to a tank already contaminated helps put the water into solution so the car can burn it. Ethanol is same thing but it attracts water from the air and when it gets too much it causes phase separation which has deleterious effects on combustion , injectors , and general running issues . Phase separation can be explained by doing an internet search .
Re: Ethanol on the rise BEWARE
Thanks. Still learning.easyrider wrote:Dry gas is alcohol..Alcohol absorbs water. The concept of adding dry gas to a tank already contaminated helps put the water into solution so the car can burn it. Ethanol is same thing but it attracts water from the air and when it gets too much it causes phase separation which has deleterious effects on combustion , injectors , and general running issues . Phase separation can be explained by doing an internet search .
"Phased separation"....my sister in law and her husband tried that. Not working so well.
Fish
Re: Ethanol on the rise BEWARE
Ethanol in fuel attracts no more water into the fuel system than fuel with no ethanol.
There will always be some water in your fuel tank, best way to avoid it is keep the tank full of fuel when not in use for long periods.
There will always be some water in your fuel tank, best way to avoid it is keep the tank full of fuel when not in use for long periods.
Four decades on two wheels has taught me nothing, all advice given is guaranteed to be wrong
-
- Forum Benefactor
- Posts: 2479
- Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:09 am
- Location: USA
Re: Ethanol on the rise BEWARE
I'm a firm believer in "Startron" fuel additive . . .. Been using it for years. Used it in my outboard motor gas years ago also.
I can be assured that when I try to start my lawn mowers or bikes (if they've been sitting a while . . . like during the Winter) they will start . . .. Keeping the battery charge up to snuff helps too.
The thing that troubles me about the E15 though is engine temperature, engine knock, and effect on fuel system parts like rubber or some metals (especially on older machines).
Let's face it . . . other than environmental concerns the "Agro" industry wants a bigger share in the fuel sales . . ..
That said I think it's fuelish to be planting crops to burn as fuel for transportation when people are going hungry in this world. Maybe not in your backyard but hunger still exists.
Better yet I think the focus should be on continuing to advance electric energy sources sparked by environmentally friendly generating plants (hydro electric, wind, solar, and even nuclear as long as it's carefully controlled and open to new innovations and disposition of spent fuel). Mass transit needs to be restored and renewed where practical and fossil fuels could remain an energy source for smaller vehicles like motorcycles, scooters, and MOPEDS. Although 2-strokes do make sense in farm tools or small engines as used in MOPEDS the emissions will still be an issue to contend with.
Time for more coffee . . ..
I can be assured that when I try to start my lawn mowers or bikes (if they've been sitting a while . . . like during the Winter) they will start . . .. Keeping the battery charge up to snuff helps too.
The thing that troubles me about the E15 though is engine temperature, engine knock, and effect on fuel system parts like rubber or some metals (especially on older machines).
Let's face it . . . other than environmental concerns the "Agro" industry wants a bigger share in the fuel sales . . ..
That said I think it's fuelish to be planting crops to burn as fuel for transportation when people are going hungry in this world. Maybe not in your backyard but hunger still exists.
Better yet I think the focus should be on continuing to advance electric energy sources sparked by environmentally friendly generating plants (hydro electric, wind, solar, and even nuclear as long as it's carefully controlled and open to new innovations and disposition of spent fuel). Mass transit needs to be restored and renewed where practical and fossil fuels could remain an energy source for smaller vehicles like motorcycles, scooters, and MOPEDS. Although 2-strokes do make sense in farm tools or small engines as used in MOPEDS the emissions will still be an issue to contend with.
Time for more coffee . . ..
-
- Forum Benefactor
- Posts: 787
- Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:28 pm
- Year: 2018
- Color: white
- Location: SE PA
Re: Ethanol on the rise BEWARE
I don’t want more alcohol in my gas. And I don't want an electric vehicle.
-
- Frequent Poster
- Posts: 1830
- Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2015 4:30 pm
- Year: 18 300 xmax
- Color: White
- Location: Fort lauderdale
- Contact:
Re: Ethanol on the rise BEWARE
I’ll take an electric bike or car all day long when they perfect this technology… Fill up once a week for 5 minutes while ordering a Starbucks coffee.
https://newatlas.com/piech-4-minute-40- ... ing/59597/
https://newatlas.com/piech-4-minute-40- ... ing/59597/
Glen
‘15 PCX build thread here:
https://www.hondapcx.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4640
Current: ‘18 XMAX 300 & ‘22 NAVI
‘15 PCX build thread here:
https://www.hondapcx.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4640
Current: ‘18 XMAX 300 & ‘22 NAVI
- GeorgeSK
- Forum Benefactor
- Posts: 986
- Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:36 pm
- Year: 13PCX,15Forza
- Color: Both Red
- Location: Danvers MA USA
Re: Ethanol on the rise BEWARE
Hate to disagree, but, putting on my chemical engineer hat, ethanol is far more hygroscopic than gasoline, and will actively pull water vapor from the air.Ethanol in fuel attracts no more water into the fuel system than fuel with no ethanol.
In the old days we would add ethanol in the form of "dry-gas" because ethanol is miscible in both water and gasoline. Any water in the tank (within reason) would thus be allowed to mix into the gasoline and flow through that non-fussy carburetor (with the notable exception of the damned dual SU's on my '70 Volvo) and so be removed.
We do not need dry-gas now - Here in Massachusetts, you cannot get anything but e-10 gasoline at a regular filling station. The gas already has "dry-gas" in it.
I'm not wicked worried about the gas in the tank absorbing excessive water while sitting around - the gas cap is, after all, sealed. I'm more worried about winter storage, during which time the gasoline will deteriorate and form deposits (varnishes more than sludges). I'm not worried about the inside of the tank, but the inside of the fuel injector is a different story. I use Stabil for winter storage, and ride the scoot enough during the season to not worry about it otherwise.
On my scoot, getting there is WAY more than half the fun!
Please paste this address into a new tab and add yourself to the map: https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=1NlP7xk7KMdJReQnm-iDhldFBdpQ&ll=4.995760578398276%2C0&z=2
but please, don't delete anybody, no matter how badly they deserve deleting
Please paste this address into a new tab and add yourself to the map: https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=1NlP7xk7KMdJReQnm-iDhldFBdpQ&ll=4.995760578398276%2C0&z=2
but please, don't delete anybody, no matter how badly they deserve deleting
Re: Ethanol on the rise BEWARE
But I wrote "fuel system" not "fuel".GeorgeSK wrote:Hate to disagree, but, putting on my chemical engineer hat, ethanol is far more hygroscopic than gasoline, and will actively pull water vapor from the airEthanol in fuel attracts no more water into the fuel system than fuel with no ethanol.
There will always be some water in the fuel system whether there's ethanol in the fuel or not.
It can be a real problem in diesels.
Four decades on two wheels has taught me nothing, all advice given is guaranteed to be wrong
- xixon
- Regular User
- Posts: 136
- Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2015 2:31 pm
- Year: 2013 PCX 150
- Color: Black
- Location: Vancouver BC
Re: Ethanol on the rise BEWARE
Chevron super-premium (94 octane) is the only fuel I can buy here that has zero ethanol.
I use this zero ethanol in the winter as a tank will last me 2 to 3 months, but I use regular 87 octane in the spring/summer/fall
If we get the higher 15% ethanol, I'll likely use a mixture of the two to lower the ethanol closer to 10%
I use this zero ethanol in the winter as a tank will last me 2 to 3 months, but I use regular 87 octane in the spring/summer/fall
If we get the higher 15% ethanol, I'll likely use a mixture of the two to lower the ethanol closer to 10%
- easyrider
- Frequent Poster
- Posts: 1597
- Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2015 6:23 pm
- Year: 2013
- Color: blk
- Location: Long Island , NY, Tampa, Ft laud
Re: Ethanol on the rise BEWARE
Once again the consumer gets in the back. Less bang for the buck in fuel economy. Not about saving the environment in the US but to reimburse the agricultural industry for recent impacts on newly importing and exporting policies.