Warped Rear drum brake

[silverantec]

Hi all. I picked up me new PCX 150 a week or so ago. First lights 50 meters up the road I noticed jerky braking. All subsequent braking using the rear brakes caused jerky/uneven braking. Before anyone tells me the front and rear brakes are connected, in our country they are not. Left brake rear, right brake front. I hoped it was just me on a new bike & uneven road surfaces so road it all the way home. Once home a dedicated ride on perfectly smooth quiet streets even with the motor off on downhills just to avoid all vibration and every time rear brake used bike brakes unevenly & is very obvious. I am near 60, a motor mechanic who has spent the last 20 working years in a job where the only thing I did was fault finding on vehicles. I know how to test brakes and diagnose faults.
Rang dealership and informed them. They informed me they have never heard of that before in our country or anywhere. I had to take the scooter back so they could test it. No way were they going to believe me. Sure enough they had to agree it was there. But here is the thing. Scooter is new. I paid for a predelivery service. It is part of the purchase price. The service book is signed saying it was road tested which included testing the brakes function. When I pointed out that I noticed the defect at the first set of lights 50 meters up the road and that whoever tested it should have picked it up both when the bike was first assembled and certainly whenever they claim to have road tested it in predelivery they were most offended. "What am I trying to say" they said. No apology offered to me in any way. Then they offered me several other likely causes of the fault other than warped brake drum (or run out; whatever you like to call it) these included, bent axle, faulty wheel bearings, the person who assembled the wheel at the factory might have had grease on his gloves and got it onto the brakes, & my personal favourite, "The drum is allowed to have up to 1/3 mm run out". (Clearly this then must make it ok; not). I pointed out that to any normal person that any fault that can be felt during braking or riding was never acceptable.

Now no other wheel is available in my country. It has to come they say from Japan. (Never mind where they are assembled or made at). Would take at least 1 month or more to come after ordered. The uneven braking is considered by our laws to be a Safety Defect. One which would get you put off the road or not be allowed to reregister your bike. But The Dealership Manager & workshop manager agreed that I must ride the bike for 1000 kls and it might go away on its own. Just wear in. (yeah right. Brake warp always just goes away). I informed them that as I bought a brand new scooter having my drum machined as a repair was not acceptable. The rear drum must be new to factory speck not machined & they need to organise it now. But alas, they are not interested until I have done 1000 klm of riding suffering jerky braking should I ever dare to apply the rear brake. Hell they were not even interested in trying to prove or disprove any of the other theories they offered me. But now I own the bike and the problem is mine, all because I trusted them to sell a good product or at least rectify any fault that became evident in good time, let alone they should never have got it to me in that condition. All because I did not ride the bike they planned to sell me before it got registered in my name. (they do not like anyone riding a non demo in case they do not buy, then it does not look so new to the next person.)

So my 2 remaining options other than the wait & see game they want is to get my own wheels (non genuine or whatever I can find) and to let the world know; Buyer beware and road test what you intend to buy before it becomes "your" problem. Maybe your dealership might actually apologise & attempt a quick resolution. Lord knows it is hard to get a email address or contact number for the manager of Honda Country wide here. I tried that too. I got sent a after sales survey to fill out in much detail about sales attention etc. I hope someone there reads it sometime this month. I am not liking using the rear brake with my head bobbing back and forth as I brake.

[Oyabun]

Hello and welcome to the forums.
Sorry to hear about your issue with your new pcx. I have to admit that my rear brake is squeaking periodicly at the first few usage every time apply it.
In case you'd fill your location in your profile we might be able to give you further directions who to turn to.

[Mister Paul]

Reject the bike. Not sure where you are, but in the UK you're within your rights to.

[silverantec]

I live in Australia. I deliberately avoided saying where the bike shop is to not directly discredit them in some vain hope they might still do something right by me. It is my understanding once you purchase a vehicle or bike in your name you cannot make them take it back, only try to get them to honour the warranty properly and fix the fault/s. I am not picking on the scooter overall by any means & do not really want to give it back, just wish they would have acted instantly once the problem was discovered and not told me I have to keep riding it for 1000 klm which I do not really want to do. Also the weather (rain or heavy clouds; Storm risks etc.) is making that distance a little harder to achieve than I would have liked.

And Oyabun if it helps you any, no idea if your scooter is new or got a few klms on it but the most common causes of brake squeak is dust on component surfaces, exposed metal particles built into the lining material, (that last one can come and go with wear), and lastly sometimes adjusting up the linings can also help remove the noise. If they need it that is. Also a minor scuffing of the wear surfaces with fine emery paper can improve the condition. (about 120 - 200 grit) If you have tried any of these or all and would like to know one more fix let me know and I will tell it. It is little known, some might consider it controversial, but has proved very effective dozens of times I have used it on discs and drum brakes. Was told to me by an old mechanic years ago. Long story but good solution to that very problem.

[Oyabun]

And Oyabun if it helps you any, no idea if your scooter is new or got a few klms on it but the most common causes of brake squeak is dust on component surfaces, exposed metal particles built into the lining material, (that last one can come and go with wear), and lastly sometimes adjusting up the linings can also help remove the noise. If they need it that is. Also a minor scuffing of the wear surfaces with fine emery paper can improve the condition. (about 120 - 200 grit) If you have tried any of these or all and would like to know one more fix let me know and I will tell it. It is little known, some might consider it controversial, but has proved very effective dozens of times I have used it on discs and drum brakes. Was told to me by an old mechanic years ago. Long story but good solution to that very problem.

Thank you. I've already cleaned the rear drum and sanded up a bit the brake shoes. It still squeaks periodically (aligned with the rotation) the first few times I apply the rear brake every time when I drive off.
If you have any suggestions please let me know.

[Mister Paul]

I live in Australia. I deliberately avoided saying where the bike shop is to not directly discredit them in some vain hope they might still do something right by me. It is my understanding once you purchase a vehicle or bike in your name you cannot make them take it back, only try to get them to honour the warranty properly and fix the fault/s. I am not picking on the scooter overall by any means & do not really want to give it back, just wish they would have acted instantly once the problem was discovered and not told me I have to keep riding it for 1000 klm which I do not really want to do. Also the weather (rain or heavy clouds; Storm risks etc.) is making that distance a little harder to achieve than I would have liked.

And Oyabun if it helps you any, no idea if your scooter is new or got a few klms on it but the most common causes of brake squeak is dust on component surfaces, exposed metal particles built into the lining material, (that last one can come and go with wear), and lastly sometimes adjusting up the linings can also help remove the noise. If they need it that is. Also a minor scuffing of the wear surfaces with fine emery paper can improve the condition. (about 120 - 200 grit) If you have tried any of these or all and would like to know one more fix let me know and I will tell it. It is little known, some might consider it controversial, but has proved very effective dozens of times I have used it on discs and drum brakes. Was told to me by an old mechanic years ago. Long story but good solution to that very problem.

Is this of any help?

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j ... a2Hnk5R3BQ

[silverantec]

Thank you Mister Paul that does help me to know how the law sees things. As for Oyabun's brake squeak you might like to try this. In non alkaline batteries, sliver, red, and black ones, there is a carbon core up the centre. In a D size battery it is 8mm (5/16inch), in C size it is 4.7625mm (3/16 inch). It gets smaller for smaller batteries. With Protective glasses on and a tool like side cutters you break into the battery case (after the top is removed the wall is soft and easily cut) and remove the black soft material surrounding the carbon centre. For small brakes like the scooter I would recommend the c size or possibly AA. (I have not done linings as small as scooter so the AA might be worth a look at.) Remember everything inside is corrosive so keep that in mind handling the battery and the thinner the core take care not to break it. Core is hard but brittle if too much pressure on it. Clean carbon core thoroughly before next step. (warm water, detergent & sponge).(No carbon core in alkaline batteries.)

The method is to drill two small holes into the lining (but not into the metal under it) exactly the diameter of the carbon core. The holes would be drilled about 6 to 10mm from the leading edge and spaced apart so as to have about 1/4 to 1/3 of the lining outside the hole and a slightly wider section between the holes. Test drill into a piece of wood or Masonite first to ensure the carbon core insert very neatly but with no undue force required. Correct size will keep the carbon in place. ( best done with newer linings rather than half worn or more.) Also with proper adjustment this carbon core insert cannot fall out.

These carbon inserts may be tapped lightly (very lightly) with wood to ensure seated then cut off level with the lining with a hacksaw blade in your hand. Then lightly sanded to meet lining surface level. They will allow minute carbon amounts to wear which in no way inhibit normal brake operation but will totally stop the squeal or in the worst case reduce it so as to make it barely noticeable. Worst result I ever have had was the latter. Out of over 100 times I have performed this on both discs and drums I have only had the one time it did not remove the noise totally. On car disc brakes I normally used a D battery core with only one hole centrally placed on the leading edge, but with drum brakes I use 2 smaller core centres. Anyone else reading this be aware that all other avenues should be first tried. (cleaning adjusting and scuffing surfaces.) Although I assure you it is both safe and does not adversely affect braking, and I know it is practiced by a number of mechanics from the mechanic who first told me of it many years ago, it is not widely known & I would not be surprised if it was thought of to be controversial by some. The proof however is in the result. (You may dab a spot of glue on the base of the carbon prior to insertion but I have never had to.) Keep linings correctly adjusted.

Try this at your discretion. I know it is safe and helpful when nothing else works. Brake squeal is caused by high frequency resonance similar to the effect of wetting a very clean finger and rubbing it around the top of a fine crystal glass. See this link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdoTdG_VNV4 to get a wonderful perspective of the effect. Use of the carbon core is a reversal of the wetting of the finger to reduce the cause of the effect.

[chainsaw]

I'm in Australia, the brakes are definitely linked front and rear with the left lever. Get the shop involved to admit in writing that there is a problem from the start and what they are advising you to do, then involve Honda Australia via email and get approval from them for what the shop is telling you to do.If you are not happy with what they want you to do re continued use of the scooter the make Honda Australia aware of that and seek their advice.

[silverantec]

You are correct chainsaw. My bad. I did not lift the front wheel when I checked the levers, only spun the rear wheel. None the less the brake fault only occurs with the use of the left lever, not with the right which does operate only the front brake. I have been in touch with Honda Australia by phone. They were going to email me but also indicated that will take a few days. The bike shop said they had noted in my handbook and on their records that the fault exists although I find no record of it written in my service book. I may yet find myself seeking a different dealership to rectify the problem. It does not have to be the one that sold it to me. I will start Enquiries again on Monday morning.