Rollers vs Sliders ? Which is better

[easyrider]

I know there are mixed feelings on this one, but to me a rolling wheel produces less friction than a sliding wheel, hence the rollers should be a better performer at its intended function (centrifugal force). Also would seem to me that a slider would wear faster and produce more surface contact friction than a roller.Just wondering and thought a discussion might be helpful taking into account experiences etc

[homie]

As with most enhanced performance products, I think you have a grasp of it. Candle burning twice as fast burns half as long and all that. Honda doesn't want to give you replacement costs to a degree you would notice so they strike a balance, up to you if you want to go faster or have better low end... easy choice if you are a DIY guy

[Richard]

I will give an opinion once someone has explained what this is about.

[Alibally]

http://youtu.be/yxcQGmT8EJc

This might explain it.

[easyrider]

The video shows lower and higher gear ratios minimally with the slider design, but also would require more replacement intervals for it to give you those same ratios consistently. The slider will wear down to roller dimension eventually and may even exceed the roller and increase ratio tolerances to that of the roller. So I guess a new slider would minimally be better at first then would wear down to where a roller is at over time.Question is how much time. More maintenance for slightly better performance would be the trade off I suppose .I guess that's Honda's way of thinking.. Less maintenance !

[Alibally]

The rollers do get flat spots on them so won't roll as well as they should after a bit of use. My original rollers were like this at 2500 miles. I've used Dr pulley sliders and thought they were quite good.
I've just fitted a takegawa pulley with 10g rollers but it got a quick run this afternoon so haven't really tested it properly yet.

[waspmike]

The first thing to consider is that round weights do NOT roll. More accurately the first thing to consider is terminology? The are all weights not rollers/sliders. They all slide they are simply different shapes. Being squeezed between two fixed ( in on plane) surfaces does not allow them to roll. They are round so that the curved contact point is minimum and offers less friction when moving.

Think this is wrong ? Get two straight flat things . Two kids rules, two chopsticks, two hard cover books. Fixed them together at one end to create a V. Then put a round pencil between them. Move the pencil up and down the V and see if it rolls. Both contact points are travelling in the same direction. If it was rolling the two contact points would be travelling in opposite directions.

In some variator set ups the more trapezoid shaped ones, from companies like Dr. Pulley, allows for more pulley movement than was engineered in by Honda. This can also be achieved by machining the variator and installing larger diameter weights. Add this improved pulley movement to the change in weight, recommended by Dr. Pulley at 10 to 15% lighter, and you can get better performance. By installing 10-15% lighter round weights will get the same except they will not allow for additional pulley movement.

Which is better? Depends what you wish to achieve. Slightly better performance at the cost of additional maintenance or... Ideally? the weights should last as long as the belt? As you have to remove the weights to change the belt the two might as well be changed together. Unless you can get the weights to last twice as long as the belt in which case...

[homie]

The first thing to consider is that round weights do NOT roll.

howdy.jpg (15.83 KiB) Viewed 5597 times

OH, OH, pick me!
If this is true could one rotate the rollers and expect them to stay put? If one was too cheap to order new ones.

[waspmike]

If this is true could one rotate the rollers and expect them to stay put? If one was too cheap to order new ones.

Homie,

They rattle around at idle but they do NOT roll in operation. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE. Obviously you could not find two hard cover books

[waspmike]

Just to muddy the waters. The latest iteration of Dr. Pulley



As you can see these have a smaller area to reduce friction

[homie]

If this is true could one rotate the rollers and expect them to stay put? If one was too cheap to order new ones.

Homie,
They rattle around at idle but they do NOT roll in operation. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE. Obviously you could not find two hard cover books

I'm sorry it was a hard assignment, like Mel's toilet paper invention So they are rotating, how do people get flat spots on their rollers? Just running them until they lock up?

[waspmike]

how do people get flat spots on their rollers? Just running them until they lock up?

Obviously they get flat spots because they do NOT roll.

Ah Mel's toilet roll.

Well it depends on whether you are an over guy or an under guy. you you will explain?

[homie]

Ok... I'm all checked out on this.
They roll when idling but (do not) roll when throttled up. They won't get flat spots unless you get on it nonstop for say three hundred miles then they would look like sliders (not rollers) anymore... so never do it.

WOOT! I'm so smart now

[BPT7594]

I'm not against thinking out of the box but my take on the roller vs slider is my roller never wore to the point of malfunctioning like some of my sliders. Lower gear ratio of the sliders does not mean it will pull harder, in most of the time a lower gear ratio meaning your scooter will take longer to lock in and pull.
It's my rule of thumb, believe it if you want but the key is your variator, heavier rollers will begin to pull sooner with the same throttle response, but when it pulls it'll be weaker compared to a lighter roller, but the lighter roller will take much longer to begin pulling. You'd want to change your variator if you want a whole new feeling, changing only the rollers will rob you somewhere in the power range before it can reward you anything.
The pcx is a simple scooter, variator wise I have not used too many, but I'm content with my current variator with 10 gram rollers and a 1mm shorter boss

[dasshreddar]

Don't forget that you can also use BOTH sliders and rollers 50-50 blend (3 of each) in the same variator
I've been using 20g sliders and 15g rollers in the forza for months with excellent results ... why? most of the slider acceleration and most of the rollers fuel economy(lower cruising rpm).

[Brent]

BPT7594, you said you are content with your current variator. Which one are you using?

[waspmike]

Dash,

You've lost me there. So you have mixed weights OK the average being 17.5gms which I understand and you have mixed sizes as Dr Pulley are dimensionally different. What I do not fully understand is how you attribute the acceleration to the heavier and bigger Dr. Pulleys and the fuel economy to the lighter conventional weights.

[dasshreddar]

wasp,
sliders will give you accel at the cost of higher rpm. right.
forza rollers stock are 21g
the total weight of the weights is what counts, so my 17.5 weights are lighter(faster)
the magic part is how the rollers drop cruising rpm.
check out BRed's posts in the forza forum he explains it all.

I've used sliders and rollers in the pcx before, didn't notice much difference but at that time i wasn't testing them.

[txpcx13]

I went with the Rollers instead of the Sliders AND I also went all one company for compatibility reasons. Do lots of searching and reading... its all in here. I know because that is what I did.
My personal choice is to go with all NCY parts; NCY Variator Assembly (Golden Pulley), NCY Drive Face (Aluminum), NCY Roller Weights (20x15) 13G.
Why did I go this way you might ask? http://hondapcx.org/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2070 because of the very first post in this thread. It fits my needs and wants.
You have a few options out there, pick was is best for you, and what is available in your area.

[homie]

I went with the Rollers instead of the Sliders AND I also went all one company for compatibility reasons. Do lots of searching and reading... its all in here. I know because that is what I did.
My personal choice is to go with all NCY parts; NCY Variator Assembly (Golden Pulley), NCY Drive Face (Aluminum), NCY Roller Weights (20x15) 13G.
Why did I go this way you might ask? http://hondapcx.org/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2070 because of the very first post in this thread. It fits my needs and wants.
You have a few options out there, pick was is best for you, and what is available in your area.

my experience with this setup is good as well here are the parts https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NRc9g3Dasw