Bike cut while riding and now will not start!

[Techno]

It's nothing more than a total lack of oil.

Does the PCX not have a low oil pressure cut-off?

They do with their EU2.0i generators - just quite surprising that they don't on the PCX - wouldn't have thought it would have been hard to implement.

Could be dangerous to have a cut off.

Why? It would/is no different from the engine locking up while riding as his did! Plus the ECU could be placed into a limp mod as they do with cars, cutting the revs once the oil level/pressure reached a set point. This with a warning light would have saved this engine, in fact just an oil level warning light such as what Yamaha fit would have saved it.

[TheMaverick]

I don't use mainstands as a rule they are less stable than side stands, in that the bike can be tipped, on the side stand it's much harder due to the fact it's over to one side. For servicing or storage in a garage they're fine.

From a physics point of view you'd probably find it took less force to push the bike over to the right from the side-stand than it does from the centre stand. Probably a different story trying to push it over to the left, but the side-stand is also vulnerable to the bike being pushed forward.

I use the side stand 98% of the time too, but I have been bitten when I didn't realise that I was parked on a slight down-slope and had to "catch" the parked bike about 1/2 way over on it's way down (my model is pre-parking brake, unfortunately).

[iceman]

Just gave the bike a quick check - I usually check the tyres every 2 months or so and the oil probably less often as I see no leaks and the I've had the bike 3+ years. As I changed jobs recently and only just started to ride to work again this week, the bike has not had much use the past 2 months - but I had checked the oil 2 weeks ago and it was fine.

This morning I found the dip stick was dry although the bike has been riding fine. I needed to add about 60-100ml's. Not sure why after 3 yr's the oil had dropped (still no leak) but I believe I may have not screwed the dip-stick in properly last check. I'll check again in a week or so.

My front tyre loses a few psi every few months and the rear more - about 10 psi every 3 months. I found it was at 15psi (!) so inflated to 33 as it should be. Always had a slow leak on the rear and it seems it's been going down even with the bike not in use. I will check and not worry anymore than usual due to the rear needing to be changed over the next 6 months (done just under 13,000 and still the original IRC with a repectable amount of tread left - MOT passed a few 100 miles ago).

So. yes, good to keep an eye on the oil level and tyre pressures, but if you have no leaks and the tyres look ok, no need to check too often.

[you you]

It's nothing more than a total lack of oil.

I think your son's 2011 might be the original pre ESP motor?

If it is I would check the centrestand lugs under the engine.
These are insufficiently strong due to poor design, are prone to cracking and have been known to rip holes in the crankcase letting the slippery stuff out.
Honda know about this fault and when it happened to me they offered to supply all parts free but I would have had to pay the labour to get them replaced by a Honda dealer.

If you are buying a replacement engine the original and the later ESP with the strengthened stand mounts are incompatible, the engine pivots are completely different.

Looking at the engines it appears Honda changed the mountings which may be what you're referring to. His bike/engine (2010 - 2012) has the frame mounting on top, where as later types (2012 on in the UK) have mountings at the bottom front, or that's what it looks like to me. I've got a complete replacement engine/drive/rear wheel assembly. I don't use mainstands as a rule they are less stable than side stands, in that the bike can be tipped, on the side stand it's much harder due to the fact it's over to one side. For servicing or storage in a garage they're fine.

I will check both engines though as I didn't know about the mainstand issue, its possible in the UK all bikes were modified or are what you call ESP as you guys often get bikes before we do.

It's a good point of GN2s. It's worth checking while the engines out. Some people even remove the main stand. It could even have been the source of the low oil level.

[Techno]

Mainstand mountings are fine on the destroyed engine, the replacement has had a repair looks to be welded.

[Techno]

.
but I believe I may have not screwed the dip-stick in properly last check.

To check the oil the dip stick should not be screwed back in just wiped and rested on the casing.

[gn2]

Either leave the main stand off or make sure it gets regular lubrication, because they seize up really easily.
Keep us updated on the new engine, hopefully it'll be a good 'un.

[Techno]

I received the engine today.


Having given it the once over although quite dirty it's all there.



I've washed it and checked it over, it's has suffered a broken stand mount which has been welded but there's no damage to the crank case that I can see.


It turns over fine and there's compression it blow out the exhaust port plug with a healthy pop, there's some oil in it but not much this seems to be the thing with scooters, they just get used and not too much TLC! This is probably due to who buys/uses them the most in the UK, young lads/ladies who either don't have the money, just forget or can't be bothered. I'll (he'll) start fitting it over the weekend, he'll transfer some of the undamaged parts, airbox, drive belt cover, and engine mount from the old engine pack, to this.

This one also has a nearly new rear tyre a City Grip which are good tyres, I'll change the front to match. As I said in my first post he was on his way over to me to get it serviced and to replace some bodywork that was damaged when the bike was knocked over, all those parts have been sitting in my garage for a few months now!

Hopefully it will all go back together over the coming week, I'll keep you posted.

[homie]

OH and a healthy Michelin tire too!

[gn2]

New City Grip is a bonus, they're great tyres.

[homie]

Get this done, show us it runs and you my friend make the whisper'ers

[iceman]

.
but I believe I may have not screwed the dip-stick in properly last check.

To check the oil the dip stick should not be screwed back in just wiped and rested on the casing.

I know, I meant after checking which may have been the reason oil was lost (heat, evaporation, not sure). This is the 1st time oil went down as much as it has in 3 yr's riding, it was fine full level on the end of the dip-stick 1 month ago (when not screwed in!) but today with hardly any use on the scoot the stick was dry. No visible leaks as no oil down the scoot or on the ground, so strange.

[Techno]

Here's a few pictures of the damaged pack.


If you look carefully just above the bottom left cylinder stud inside the crankcase you'll see part of the piston pin mounting from the piston.

You can see the piston stuck at TDC and where the piston pin has been ripped from the piston.

[fish]

Hope this engine works out just fine for you!
Was very recently reading on this forum a post advising that as long as you see no oil leaking from the engine there is no reason to check the oil level between oil hanges...... thousands of miles later.
I don't have a pcx owner's manual - but, does that manual agree with such a statement?
Really?
I think I may be able to stretch a look at a dipstick to 2 mins.....Maybe. Takes well under 60 seconds, usually.
Fish

[Techno]

.
but I believe I may have not screwed the dip-stick in properly last check.

To check the oil the dip stick should not be screwed back in just wiped and rested on the casing.

I know, I meant after checking which may have been the reason oil was lost (heat, evaporation, not sure). This is the 1st time oil went down as much as it has in 3 yr's riding, it was fine full level on the end of the dip-stick 1 month ago (when not screwed in!) but today with hardly any use on the scoot the stick was dry. No visible leaks as no oil down the scoot or on the ground, so strange.

I see, yes that's possible.

[you you]

Hope this engine works out just fine for you!
Was very recently reading on this forum a post advising that as long as you see no oil leaking from the engine there is no reason to check the oil level between oil hanges...... thousands of miles later.
I don't have a pcx owner's manual - but, does that manual agree with such a statement?
Really?
I think I may be able to stretch a look at a dipstick to 2 mins.....Maybe. Takes well under 60 seconds, usually.
Fish

And slightly less to be sanctimonious.

[you you]

I received the engine today.


Having given it the once over although quite dirty it's all there.



I've washed it and checked it over, it's has suffered a broken stand mount which has been welded but there's no damage to the crank case that I can see.


It turns over fine and there's compression it blow out the exhaust port plug with a healthy pop, there's some oil in it but not much this seems to be the thing with scooters, they just get used and not too much TLC! This is probably due to who buys/uses them the most in the UK, young lads/ladies who either don't have the money, just forget or can't be bothered. I'll (he'll) start fitting it over the weekend, he'll transfer some of the undamaged parts, airbox, drive belt cover, and engine mount from the old engine pack, to this.

This one also has a nearly new rear tyre a City Grip which are good tyres, I'll change the front to match. As I said in my first post he was on his way over to me to get it serviced and to replace some bodywork that was damaged when the bike was knocked over, all those parts have been sitting in my garage for a few months now!

Hopefully it will all go back together over the coming week, I'll keep you posted.

Looks promising. Hopefully it'll be fit and go

[Mel46]

Make sure you have no cracks in the casing from the center stand on that new one. That one major problem on the 2011 model was the downfall of many a fine scootering day. No one wants to go through the effort of replacing the engine only to find that the casing had a Crack because of the center stand.

[gn2]

Very true Mel, its the achilles heel of the original PCX.

[homie]

Hope this engine works out just fine for you!
Was very recently reading on this forum a post advising that as long as you see no oil leaking from the engine there is no reason to check the oil level between oil hanges...... thousands of miles later.
I don't have a pcx owner's manual - but, does that manual agree with such a statement?
Really?
I think I may be able to stretch a look at a dipstick to 2 mins.....Maybe. Takes well under 60 seconds, usually.
Fish

And slightly less to be sanctimonious.

Wasn't me who said that for the record. It's the radiator fluid that will hit the low level mark at 4-5k on a PCX.