Strange sound from the vario

[Givestrong]

I ordered the whole driven face on Partzilla and received it today.
(23205-k35-v00)

It is fine, that's the good part, Honda spare parts sticker, it came with a little tube of grease, unknown quality.
The mounted bearings (INA) are slightly greased, but it is some factory grease, very far from the 8grams requested for the assembly.

I wait for the right tool to remove the 39mm clutch nut now, and i will change that part soon, the sound drives me crazy !

I confirm than you can change the bearings at home, with no special tools.
It will need a long pin punch to kick out the needle bearing from the inside, then some snap pliers to remove the circlip, then a socket to remove the small bearing. I think the mounting will not be difficult, just don't hit too much the bearings and use a wood interface.
I'll try to change it later on my original face driven

[TheMaverick]

I ordered the whole driven face on Partzilla and received it today.
(23205-k35-v00)

It is fine, that's the good part, Honda spare parts sticker, it came with a little tube of grease, unknown quality.
The mounted bearings (INA) are slightly greased, but it is some factory grease, very far from the 8grams requested for the assembly.

I wait for the right tool to remove the 39mm clutch nut now, and i will change that part soon, the sound drives me crazy !

I confirm than you can change the bearings at home, with no special tools.
It will need a long pin punch to kick out the needle bearing from the inside, then some snap pliers to remove the circlip, then a socket to remove the small bearing. I think the mounting will not be difficult, just don't hit too much the bearings and use a wood interface.
I'll try to change it later on my original face driven

Same for mine. I made the assumption that if the driven face assy was Honda OEM quality then the grease probably was too. I just cut a corner off the bag it came in - squirted it in place - and then use a clean screwdriver to pack it into the space where it needs to go. I was originally worried that the shaft the whole assy is mounted on would push the grease back out again, but I was able to pack it well enough that this only happened to a miniscule degree.

I looked at replacing the bearings - turns out that one of the bearings is common as mud - but the other was a "Honda special" (for NZ anyway).

[iceman]

one more relevant thing that I forgot - I don´t have a torque wrench so I "might" overtighten the
clutch and vario bolts before and this last time...

I just bought a Torque wrench, one of the 30-210nm one's and it's huge - the 10-80 ones are half the length. I bought it so I could use it for the vario/clutch and wheels rather than smaller less torque bolts. Not sure if it was a waste of time, as the garage did not use a torque wrench when replacing my rear tyre - tightened the exhaust, cover and tyre bolts to the max (I cringed!)

Bear in mind, as Homie pointed out in his video, the service manual says the varitor nut/spindle should have engine oil applied before tightening the nut to the required torque settings - not so for the clutch nut/spindle which should have no added oil applied (adding oil makes the torque even tighter on the bolts/nuts).

re: your 'rear drive shaft bearing' without the clutch / driven face in the equation video - what is the opinion on that being a good or bad sound? (I've got the replacement final drive part 8 assembly but not fitted it yet, and the bike makes a horrid graunching noise when wheeling it so I hope it's the driven face bearings themselves). I'd expect that kind of low-level mechanical sound anyway - or is it supposed to be even quieter?

[TheMaverick]

re: your 'rear drive shaft bearing' without the clutch / driven face in the equation video - what is the opinion on that being a good or bad sound? (I've got the replacement final drive part 8 assembly but not fitted it yet, and the bike makes a horrid graunching noise when wheeling it so I hope it's the driven face bearings themselves). I'd expect that kind of low-level mechanical sound anyway - or is it supposed to be even quieter?

I spun my bike's rear wheel with the clutch assy removed - there was still mechanical noise, but the sound was "smooth, low-level, and normal".

Before I changed out the rear driven face assy the noise coming from the clutch assy just sounded rough - like dry bearings with a bit of sand in them. It slowly got rougher sounding over time, but didn't appear to be close to failing at 33,000km.

With the new assy installed it immediately sounded smoother, but not as quiet as I anticipated. A few days later it was both smooth AND much quieter.

I'm putting it all down to the grease - my strong suspicion is that the original parts were under-greased.

[iceman]

Thanks! Yep, seems Honda slipped up re the amount of grease installed, one wonders sometimes if any!, and possibly less tham ideal bearings. Someone mentioned the colour had changed, black/blue or such for some circular bit, if so it seems more than just a grease issue.

[TheMaverick]

Someone mentioned the colour had changed, black/blue or such for some circular bit, if so it seems more than just a grease issue.

Could well be - they have 2 different manufacturers of one of the bearings listed - at very different prices.

[pxc-in-japan]

Wondering whether mine has the same supposed issue, I recorded the video/sound of me spinning the back wheel slowly while the bike is still full assembled.
Not sure if this is useful, but for reference.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2_ec ... 0drRFRycVU

Can post a video of the sound of it idling with slight throttling on the centre stand if that's any good for telling wether there's trouble.

I had a good listen with headphones on and the volume turned up - yep - sounds exactly like mine did when I had lower mileage on it. Mine's now at 32,000km (ish) and currently (with that cover on) it doesn't sound any louder, but mine does sound slightly "rougher".

Personally, it's not something I'm losing any sleep over - I suspect it'll give us more warning before it fails completely, and it's a easy & cheap fix. Perhaps just get the parts on-hand so they're their when you need them.

Yep, thanks. I have all the genuine Honda parts from my local dealer.
belt / rollers / slide pieces (a.k.a. dampers) / two new bearings (1 for clutch assembly sand one for left side cover just in case).

[pxc-in-japan]

Someone mentioned the colour had changed, black/blue or such for some circular bit, if so it seems more than just a grease issue.

Could well be - they have 2 different manufacturers of one of the bearings listed - at very different prices.

Here in Japan for the (2015 LED) KF18 (chassis number) model, too, there are two.
I was advised to buy the NTN brand bearing over the other one.

[pxc-in-japan]

As I intended to swap the belt, rollers, etc at about every 18,000 - 20,000 kilos anyway

Book says 24,000 for belt off memory, and I suspect most will go well beyond that (mine is currently at 32,000 - has cracks on the inside, but there's no depth to them and that's not a particularly structural part of the belt).

I wouldn't worry about variator rollers unless it "gives you a sign".

My personal philosophy (apart from oil changes which I do every 4,000km) is to just give the bike regular inspections and to not "over-service it" - I think most scheduled components will give you plenty of warning before they reach the end of their useful lives.

Fair point.
But I thought I would skip the 12,000 k inspection and just meet the Honda book half way (i.e. 18,000 K) for a belt / roller / slide piece change plus strip and regrease the clutch assy even if I am not changing the clutch shoes.
It will cost a little more money but it will consume 1 full day fewer every 2 years when I add 1/2 day for the valve check and tappet adjustment (timed to coincide).
** The main reason this time, though, is that I have some noise (not a lot) - probably coming from the clutch bearings. **
Mine likes new Honda semi-synthetic every 4,000 k, too.

[Nemesis]

small update, new bearings are here , I just have to find some time to install them. At the end I chose the NTN bearings and I will replace them myself.

[tomtomclub2005]

Asked my mech to replace the driven face assembly since i had the replacement spare handy (Had quite a bit of noise from transmission) .Guy left me the old parts so i inspected them. The old driven face from late december 2014 (led) had actually quite a lot of black grease left in it- Much more than 7 grams. He did the belt as well ( PCX is 21.000 Km) . It's much smoother and silent now but i am wondering if the belt change is not responsible for it too. So I really thought maybe i changed the driven face for nothing- Ok i did not try to turn the bearing in the old driven face yet- too packed with filthy grease and no time for it yet. I'll report later.

For now , gone is the damn metallic rasp noise and enjoying a nice difference in accelaration, even with nothing broken in... So heads up, if yours is close to 20,000 Km maybe the belt is also needing attention...

[easyrider]

In the top photo, it sounds to me like rollers are rattling away, Should not be any grease on the outside face(s) where belt rides.

[Mel46]

First of all let me say that any time you change the belt your acceleration will improve.
Next, you can bet that the problem and noise you heard were from that clutch bearing. Even with a lot of grease on the outside, the inner bearing can still be bad. There are two bearings in that assembly, either one of which could have had the problem. Just because there is a lot of grease on the outside, it does not mean that there was enough on the inside. Our bearing problem started at 10k miles, so 12k miles is within the "going bad" time frame.
Enjoy your repaired ride and don't worry about whether you fixed it for no apparent reason. You did the right thing.

[tomtomclub2005]

You are right Mel, i can definitely say the bearings in the driven were out, it's a lot more silent now, very easy to notice when freewheeling engine off. I have heard lots of comments saying failure was due because there was not enough grease from start, well my late December 2014 LED PCX had plenty still packed in just see pics.

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