Warranty "service requirements" in the UK?

[Eiron]

Recently there was some discussion about the differences in service requirements to keep the PCX under warranty in various countries. When comparing the relative flexibility of servicing regulations in the US to the comparatively restrictive requirements in the UK, several statements were made that unequivocally demanded use of a verified dealer or servicing garage in order to validate and/or maintain your PCX's warranty in UK countries. Unfortunately, the only details to these service requirements were statements like, "for the warranty to remain valid the scooter must be serviced by a franchised Honda dealer," and, "it's enshrined in common law and subject to some high profile law changes a few years ago." No supporting data (laws, court cases, etc) was provided, which was frustrating to me.

So I decided to do some research on my own. First, I did a few searches on UK Warranty law. I read a number of outlines and details, but found nothing that supported the statements made here. Then, I tried to find recent court cases that involved UK warranty laws. I was not able to find anything definitive that corroborated the claims of our UK members. (Admittedly, my searches were not exhaustive.) I also looked up warranties for a couple of motorcycle manufacturers, just to see if they outlined specific requirements for keeping their warranties valid. (Answer: some are more specific than others.)

My last step, as you might imagine, was to query Honda UK themselves; to ask my "pointed questions," if you will. It's taken nearly a month of back-and-forth (and a bit of 'hand-offs' between departments), but I did get some answers. However, before I post what I've learned, I'd like to ask any of our UK members to provide any kind of verification that supports the UK warranty service requirement of only using a certified dealer or repair garage. Since my research was minimal, I recognize that there may well be examples I didn't discover.

And I'm always willing to learn new stuff, too.

[gn2]

If you've got useful information from Honda UK you should definitely post it.

[PCX150Rider]

The devil is in the details.

[Mister Paul]

Recently there was some discussion about the differences in service requirements to keep the PCX under warranty in various countries. When comparing the relative flexibility of servicing regulations in the US to the comparatively restrictive requirements in the UK, several statements were made that unequivocally demanded use of a verified dealer or servicing garage in order to validate and/or maintain your PCX's warranty in UK countries. Unfortunately, the only details to these service requirements were statements like, "for the warranty to remain valid the scooter must be serviced by a franchised Honda dealer," and, "it's enshrined in common law and subject to some high profile law changes a few years ago." No supporting data (laws, court cases, etc) was provided, which was frustrating to me.

So I decided to do some research on my own. First, I did a few searches on UK Warranty law. I read a number of outlines and details, but found nothing that supported the statements made here. Then, I tried to find recent court cases that involved UK warranty laws. I was not able to find anything definitive that corroborated the claims of our UK members. (Admittedly, my searches were not exhaustive.) I also looked up warranties for a couple of motorcycle manufacturers, just to see if they outlined specific requirements for keeping their warranties valid. (Answer: some are more specific than others.)

My last step, as you might imagine, was to query Honda UK themselves; to ask my "pointed questions," if you will. It's taken nearly a month of back-and-forth (and a bit of 'hand-offs' between departments), but I did get some answers. However, before I post what I've learned, I'd like to ask any of our UK members to provide any kind of verification that supports the UK warranty service requirement of only using a certified dealer or repair garage. Since my research was minimal, I recognize that there may well be examples I didn't discover.


And I'm always willing to learn new stuff, too.

You don't have to use Honda.

[gn2]

You don't have to use Honda.

If you want to stand any chance of a successful warranty claim on a motorcycle you do.
The "EU Block Exemption" legislation which enables consumers to have independents do servicing and keep their warranty valid has only ever applied to three and four wheeled vehicles.
It remains the case that motorcycle manufacturers can (and do) stipulate use of a franchised dealer for servicing.
There is EU legislation in place which mandates that motorcycle manufacturers must make service information and spare parts available to independents, but there is nothing in place to compel manufacturers to honour motorcycle warranties if servicing is done by independents.

[easyrider]

What is the warranty on a new scooter anyway ? Time period ? mileage ? I would think it would be predicated on a manufactures defect. I would think any Honda dealership worth their salt would be able to diagnose that notwithstanding any gross negligence of some sort by the owner.What could an owner do to void a warranty other than changing the oil and not putting back the drain plug and burning the engine up.. and this would be obvious to a mechanic as negligence. So is this really a mute issue or are dealers in UK that hell bent on screwing people on warranty work?

[Eiron]

You don't have to use Honda.

If you want to stand any chance of a successful warranty claim on a motorcycle you do.
The "EU Block Exemption" legislation which enables consumers to have independents do servicing and keep their warranty valid has only ever applied to three and four wheeled vehicles.
It remains the case that motorcycle manufacturers can (and do) stipulate use of a franchised dealer for servicing.
There is EU legislation in place which mandates that motorcycle manufacturers must make service information and spare parts available to independents, but there is nothing in place to compel manufacturers to honour motorcycle warranties if servicing is done by independents.

Some UK motorcycle manufacturers do use language that appears to restrict servicing only to their own dealer network. I was led to believe that this was Honda UK's wording (from the Owner's Manual?):

It is your responsibility to ensure that services are performed at the specified period and the service record is appropriately endorsed. In this way your machine will receive the full benefit of the Honda warranty.
Although there is a large network of authorised Honda dealers, it is preferable that routine servicing is performed by the original authorised Honda selling dealer where both you and the machine are known.
In normal servicing circumstances, regular servicing reduces the overall cost of maintenance.
Should a fault occur during the warranty period contact your authorised Honda dealer immediately and arrange an appointment for necessary work to be completed.
During the summer period, many dealers are very busy. It is therefore advisable to plan routine servicing well in advance.

While repeatedly implying that one should only use the dealer network, there isn't any "iron-clad" verbiage here that requires it (other than, possibly, the "appropriately endorsed" statement).
gn2, do you have any motorcycle legal case examples you can link to? I'd be interested in reading them.

[Eiron]

What is the warranty on a new scooter anyway ? Time period ? mileage ? I would think it would be predicated on a manufactures defect. I would think any Honda dealership worth their salt would be able to diagnose that notwithstanding any gross negligence of some sort by the owner.What could an owner do to void a warranty other than changing the oil and not putting back the drain plug and burning the engine up.. and this would be obvious to a mechanic as negligence. ...

I completely agree with this sentiment. Does that put more responsibility on the shoulders of the owner? Absolutely! But then (I think) we're getting into the idea of "Do It For Me" (DIFM) to avoid the anxiety of challenging the manufacturer over a defect.
Honda UK's warranty appears to be based on time (2 years), but their web page on warranty coverage avoids any specifics and deflects to the "Service and Warranty Booklet":
Honda UK Warranty

[easyrider]

Its clear to me that anyone qualified to do the work is suitable, and it does not exclude the owner , just so long as he/she records and endorses the book. If HONDA sells service manuals to the public as I assume they do in UK then they are also assuming that the public can read and perform basic maintenance as provided therein.I believe they just want to see that the service requirements were met, but would prefer that you use their products and network to help foster their business enterprises , but nowhere do I see where it says work has to be performed by a HONDA certified technician in your statement.

[Mister Paul]

You don't have to use Honda.

If you want to stand any chance of a successful warranty claim on a motorcycle you do.
The "EU Block Exemption" legislation which enables consumers to have independents do servicing and keep their warranty valid has only ever applied to three and four wheeled vehicles.
It remains the case that motorcycle manufacturers can (and do) stipulate use of a franchised dealer for servicing.
There is EU legislation in place which mandates that motorcycle manufacturers must make service information and spare parts available to independents, but there is nothing in place to compel manufacturers to honour motorcycle warranties if servicing is done by independents.

Kawasaki don't insist on you having your bike serviced with them.

[gn2]

You don't have to use Honda.

If you want to stand any chance of a successful warranty claim on a motorcycle you do.

Kawasaki don't insist on you having your bike serviced with them.

What does Kawasaki policy have to do with Honda warranty conditions?

The fact remains that the EU Block Exemption legislation does not compel a manufacturer to make good on the warranty if you use an independent for servicing a motorcycle.

Sometimes its a hard enough struggle to get them to pay out even when you have used a franchised dealer.
Like when Honda refused to pay out on a new set of forks for my PCX when the stanchions got rusty.
£60 for a used set off eBay was a lot easier than trying to force the issue.

What I would say to Kawasaki owners...
You might save a few quid on servicing at an independent, but do you want to have the hassle of trying to file a warranty claim yourself?

Bit of explanation here, warranties are not paid direct to the owner, they are a guarantee of reimbursement to the dealer.
Is an independent more likely to pursue Kawasaki for a warranty payout or simply invoice you as the owner?
(rhetorical question)

You would then have to pay up front and try to get the money back from Kawasaki.
Good luck with that.

[Mister Paul]

If you want to stand any chance of a successful warranty claim on a motorcycle you do.

Kawasaki don't insist on you having your bike serviced with them.

What does Kawasaki policy have to do with Honda warranty conditions?

The fact remains that the EU Block Exemption legislation does not compel a manufacturer to make good on the warranty if you use an independent for servicing a motorcycle.

Sometimes its a hard enough struggle to get them to pay out even when you have used a franchised dealer.
Like when Honda refused to pay out on a new set of forks for my PCX when the stanchions got rusty.
£60 for a used set off eBay was a lot easier than trying to force the issue.

What I would say to Kawasaki owners...
You might save a few quid on servicing at an independent, but do you want to have the hassle of trying to file a warranty claim yourself?

Bit of explanation here, warranties are not paid direct to the owner, they are a guarantee of reimbursement to the dealer.
Is an independent more likely to pursue Kawasaki for a warranty payout or simply invoice you as the owner?
(rhetorical question)

You would then have to pay up front and try to get the money back from Kawasaki.
Good luck with that.

You made a general comment about motorcycle warranties, not specifically about Honda. You're comment was incorrect. Kawasaki don't insist on Kawasaki servicing.

[gn2]

If you think you've uncovered some great mistake I've made then that's fine.
More power to ya
But the fact remains, motorcycles are not covered by the EU Block Exemption.

[easyrider]

To clear things up ??? Maybe

Block Exemption Regulation
The Block Exemption Regulation is an exemption in a business line or industry, which debars organizations in the industry from some business activities in order to create competition. The regulation is highly known in the automobile industry due to the effect caused by the Block Exemption Regulation from the European Commission. BER has changed the automobile industry in the last decade. Prior to 2003 automobile owners in the EU region risk nullifying their vehicle warranty when the vehicles were serviced or repaired in workshops not belonging to the vehicle manufacturer or its dealers. This barrier was broken in October 2003, when the European Commission passed a law allowing vehicle owners the freedom of having their servicing and repairs done at their chosen workshop.

[gn2]

Yes, that's the legislation which doesn't apply to motorcycles.

[Mister Paul]

If you think you've uncovered some great mistake I've made then that's fine.
More power to ya
But the fact remains, motorcycles are not covered by the EU Block Exemption.

I didn't say it did. I just pointed out the incorrect information you've given to someone asking on the subject.

[easyrider]

Yes, that's the legislation which doesn't apply to motorcycles.

Not sure where it says that motorcycle businesses are exempt.

[gn2]

Yes, that's the legislation which doesn't apply to motorcycles.

Not sure where it says that motorcycle businesses are exempt.

Its in the definitions.
The legislation only applies to three and four wheeled vehicles.

[gn2]

I just pointed out the incorrect information you've given to someone asking on the subject.

If anyone addresses the specific question to me of "can I have my motorcycle (of any brand) serviced at an independent garage in the UK and be certain of getting a warranty claim should a fault develop afterwards?" Then my simple answer will be "No".

What they then do matters not a flying f___ to me either way.

I know where I get my servicing done and I know why.

[you you]

Ive got a Subaru and the dealer said I could use the nearby Toyota garage for servicing. The only thing is that I wouldnt be "on the system" but they would rectify that if I emailed them the invoice with the work done on