Battery charging - a few questions

[springer1]

Battery to Battery
Red to Red
Black to Black


BTW I saw an alien yesterday so it must be true, it is now on the internet.
In the marine industry it is called Dock Talk - translated (Bravo Sierra)

Simple battery to battery
If the battery ground is no good, the black to metal WILL NOT WORK. It wouold still be an open circuit!

Simple battery to battery
Any Questions?


The only opinions are which (red or black) first.
Simple - Red

When you later disconnect the cables, a spark can detonate the hydrogen gas (& battery being charged). That's why every single written procedure I've read, mechanics' courses, and shop etiquette all require connecting an appropriate wire to frame AWAY from the battery. For the same reason, it's wise to plug in or unplug a battery charger - .vs. applying clips to the battery - in the appropriate sequence. Read and follow the instructions.

.

[you you]

Battery to Battery
Red to Red
Black to Black


BTW I saw an alien yesterday so it must be true, it is now on the internet.
In the marine industry it is called Dock Talk - translated (Bravo Sierra)

Simple battery to battery
If the battery ground is no good, the black to metal WILL NOT WORK. It wouold still be an open circuit!

Simple battery to battery
Any Questions?


The only opinions are which (red or black) first.
Simple - Red

Dock talk - Bravo Sierra . Never heard that expression before.

[RobV]

Lithium batteries are not %100 reliable - they also die especially if they are over charged or for some reason drop below minumum voltage by too far a margin. Applies to all Lithium even in small devices. For the price, as mentioned it does not seem worth it as a good normal PCX battery will last ages.

I looked into Lithium batteries - helps to have two electrical engineer brothers. I was interested because of the battery in my 400 burgman was near horizontal & they're notorious for going through batteries (it's only an issue if you let it get too low - but that's another story). The PCX battery is at a bad angle too. Mine came with a Lithium battery that the previous owner fitted. They can be used at any angle. I can shed a little light on your concerns. Li batters like being stored with 70-90% charge but dropping them to zero won't kill them. After being away from my PCX for a month I returned home to find battery voltage down to 1.6V. An hour on the charger did nothing, but it turns out the issue was my charger. It couldn't 'see' a battery so didn't charge. On advice from my brother I reconnected the charger then touched 12V from a car battery across the terminals for a second. I heard the battery charger click & commencing charging. An hour later the battery was fine. That was a couple of months ago & it's still working without issue.
re: overcharging, Li batteries will burn explosively if overcharged, just ask Samsung - however in a Li battery box, there's some clever circuitry between the terminals and the actually Li storage device to control charging rates.
In short: If your battery is so flat you need to use an external charger on your PCX battery, remove it first. If it's lead acid, it should be upright to charge. If it's lithium, given you're relying on some computer controlled circuitry to stop it exploding, and given its proximity to the fuel tank - best play safe. Rumor has it that a samsung laptop battery blew a commercial aircraft out of the sky.

[you you]

Lithium batteries are not %100 reliable - they also die especially if they are over charged or for some reason drop below minumum voltage by too far a margin. Applies to all Lithium even in small devices. For the price, as mentioned it does not seem worth it as a good normal PCX battery will last ages.

I looked into Lithium batteries - helps to have two electrical engineer brothers. I was interested because of the battery in my 400 burgman was near horizontal & they're notorious for going through batteries (it's only an issue if you let it get too low - but that's another story). The PCX battery is at a bad angle too. Mine came with a Lithium battery that the previous owner fitted. They can be used at any angle. I can shed a little light on your concerns. Li batters like being stored with 70-90% charge but dropping them to zero won't kill them. After being away from my PCX for a month I returned home to find battery voltage down to 1.6V. An hour on the charger did nothing, but it turns out the issue was my charger. It couldn't 'see' a battery so didn't charge. On advice from my brother I reconnected the charger then touched 12V from a car battery across the terminals for a second. I heard the battery charger click & commencing charging. An hour later the battery was fine. That was a couple of months ago & it's still working without issue.
re: overcharging, Li batteries will burn explosively if overcharged, just ask Samsung - however in a Li battery box, there's some clever circuitry between the terminals and the actually Li storage device to control charging rates.
In short: If your battery is so flat you need to use an external charger on your PCX battery, remove it first. If it's lead acid, it should be upright to charge. If it's lithium, given you're relying on some computer controlled circuitry to stop it exploding, and given its proximity to the fuel tank - best play safe. Rumor has it that a samsung laptop battery blew a commercial aircraft out of the sky.

I heard that it was two. Dock talk said three..

[Jge64]

I have used a shorai lithium in my Xmax (same PCs size) for 18 months. Advantages for me:
1/2 the size of the conventional batt
1.5 lbs vs 4.6 lbs
Twice the CCA

The crank over is much quicker.

[smrbike]

When you later disconnect the cables, a spark can detonate the hydrogen gas (& battery being charged). That's why every single written procedure I've read, mechanics' courses, and shop etiquette all require connecting an appropriate wire to frame AWAY from the battery. For the same reason, it's wise to plug in or unplug a battery charger - .vs. applying clips to the battery - in the appropriate sequence. Read and follow the instructions.

.

FYI, this was referring to jumping NOT charging. Hydrogen gas will be dispersed once the area is open to air circulation. Even Automobiles jump battery to battery. If you were doing an extended charge and had hydrogen gas bubbling off in a closed environment, possibly, but that is not the case usually, especially when jut doing a jump start. When charging, I always connect the charger to the battery first before turning on the charger - never a spark that way. Plus I have a dedicated charger lead that exits from under the seat to assist easily.

[halluinoid]

yeah I was reading about that, I was quite tempted to look further into doing that myself ..... until today

The battery will be fine till you break it.
Only charger it needs is in the scooter already.
There's a reason they're described as "maintenance free"

seems this is the case!! my 2018 Forza left abandoned down the side of my house for 3 months and fell over due to storm, lieing on its side until I found it
after 3 months of just being parked up I fully expected it to have no power, yet this morning it fired up on the touch of the button as if I had just been riding it yesterday, I was amazed

[iceman]

I've read that lithium batteries, all kinds such as phones or thise used in shavers, etc, last longer if charged between %10-90 - about 3-4 times longer life than if run too low and charged to %100 all the time, just shorter life between charges.

What seems strange is that Lithium batteries are not supposed to be over-charged, which is why most of the normal 12V chargers say do not use with Lithium batteries as the end-point cut-off is 13.5-14+V's.

So, how come a 12V Lithium cell can be used when the normal PCX battery shows about 13.8V's when healthy (something like that). I'd expect the alternator charging to kill the Lithium cells but it seems fine years on.