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No offence What I meant one could find a source by googling to prove a point, any point. If you say I'm wrong, so be it. Then we can move along into another subject.
I'm just doing what they say "relata refero" -- telling what I've been made to believe. In Finland, they always bring this subject up and there are some papers out there justifying this claim. They could be doctored to back up an agenda. I guess the scene is different in different markets. In Thailand the biggest killers are wreckless driving, collision and drunk driving. Again, I have no source to quote for these three things -- it's my belief based on what I've seen.
I have learned from my mistakes, and I am sure I can repeat them exactly.
When I posted this I didn't expect to get this much response. Thank you all for the tips and videos. Although, initially some of the counter steering information seems to be the opposite of what you should be doing, after some practice, I can see how it actually works. I can totally understand the comment about somebody almost giving up on their scooter until they mastered turning. When I went to school I was a horrible failure trying to learn physics. I guess my initial skepticism about counter steering is a reflection of my failure to learn the subject.
Thanks again and please know that you've all helped tremendously.
PKrellner wrote:When I posted this I didn't expect to get this much response. Thank you all for the tips and videos. Although, initially some of the counter steering information seems to be the opposite of what you should be doing, after some practice, I can see how it actually works. I can totally understand the comment about somebody almost giving up on their scooter until they mastered turning. When I went to school I was a horrible failure trying to learn physics. I guess my initial skepticism about counter steering is a reflection of my failure to learn the subject.
Thanks again and please know that you've all helped tremendously.
Stick with it and enjoy the bike. Find yourself a quiet car park and practice the slow speed stuff and try not to overanalyse it. It's a 125 scooter after all not a moto gp bike.
"Crash studies show that running off the road, usually in a curve, accounts for 37 percent* of total motorcycle fatalities. This is the primary situation in which motorcyclists have single vehicle crashes."
"Crash studies show that running off the road, usually in a curve, accounts for 37 percent* of total motorcycle fatalities. This is the primary situation in which motorcyclists have single vehicle crashes."
*NHTSA 2005 FARS data
Probably trying to practice counter steering or going too fast........
"Crash studies show that running off the road, usually in a curve, accounts for 37 percent* of total motorcycle fatalities. This is the primary situation in which motorcyclists have single vehicle crashes."
*NHTSA 2005 FARS data
37% on a curve = 63% on a straight?
Let's not bend the numbers and just enjoy our tweeny scooters and not get a hard on over motorcycle fatalities?
I found this page that has another view at the high rate of single vehicle crashes (40 % in NSW, Australia). They usually blame speeding for accidents, but an important contributing factor could be the condition of the road.
If a driver or rider loses control of their vehicle by skidding or going off the outside of a curve it is assumed that they were going too fast for conditions. This may be a reasonable assumption for cars, which are less vulnerable to sudden changes in the road surface, but should not always be assumed for motorcycles.
Excessive speed and rider error may well be factors, but there is also substantial evidence that road surface conditions contribute to at least one in five single vehicle motorcycle crashes.
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To show the effects of the spinning front wheel as a gyroscope to demonstrate press-right-lean-right-go-right counter steering, etc., try this trick:
Take a bicycle wheel off the bicycle and hold it in your hands by the quick release axle. First, without spinning the wheel, if you push forward on the right side of the axle of the wheel, as you would predict the bicycle wheel simply will point to the left. Now, start that wheel spinning in a forward direction. With the wheel spinning in a forward direction, if you push forward on the right side of the axle of the wheel, the wheel as it spins will lean to the right. We like that lean.
Somewhere there should be a youtube video of this gyroscopic effect, I think. If not, I hope some more physically attractive person than me will make the video.
Just tell any non-believers in counter steering to do this spinning bicycle wheel demonstration for themselves. You will convert the skeptical to the understanding of counter steering.
Ignoring stone throwing, crucifying members of this forum, I just wanted to add that the world of counter steering was opened to me by a Police rider during a Met Police bike safe day. It made a world of difference to me, I am more confident in corners, safer at slow filtering speeds and I DO use it either on my heavy beast XL1000 Varadero or on the little PCX (and I used it on every single bike I ever rode). The dynamics of steering are the same no matter what size your bike is - I can use it even on my bicycle. If you try to avoid that child that just jumped out between those two cars parked and you try this by shifting weights, you will be too slow and either hit it or hit the deck.
Having said that, the first and foremost rule when riding/driving is that you should always be able to stop in the distance that you can see! That means that your speed needs to be reasonable for the circumstances at hand (so if you may not be able to stop for that child stepping out from between parked cars, you are too fast in the first place!). That also means backing off before you enter that corner, especially if you can't see the exit/around it. Practice your braking, there are plenty of videos on youtube about how to stop safely.
And gone I am before I get hit by any stones from the Highlands...
How do you ride without countersteering? Isnt that why as a kid it takes 1/2 hour or so to learn to ride a bicycle till the countersteering sinks into the cerebellum. Weight shifting is for keeping the bike more upright in corners or for leaning into a crosswind. I think you will find even to keep a bike going straight your cerebellum is doing minute countersteering corrections all the time based on bumps, wind, road camber etc.
What I meant one could find a source by googling to prove a point, any point. If you say I'm wrong, so be it. Then we can move along into another subject.
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