New bloke. Hello!!

[Fizzy Rascal]

Merry Christmas all.

I recently bought a 125 PCX in white - I fell in love with the look of the scoot at the recent 'Bike Live' event at the NEC - so much so, that I went and found a local dealer and bought it there and then - pure impulse/lust/love at first sight.

I've literally only done about 200 miles on it (the weather here in (rural) France hasn't been great of late but I enjoyed those 200 (mostly cold) miles - although I've ordered a 'non hump' seat from the far east already, as the hump manages to push me forward rather than hold me in place) - I'm now also considering a Forza 300 (as well) for longer runs.

As part of my online 'research' into the Forza - google brought me here.

Great forum(s)

Anyway . . . just thought I'd say "Hi!"

[MichRocks]

Welcome- and Merry Christmas!

Great bike, that PCX. Lots of love for it in these forums, and many drivers that have had (or HAVE) both. If you have questions, there are a lot of good users here that can answer just about anything you can possibly throw at them. The PCX side of this forum, in "General" has an absolute wealth of info on them. Good browsing, and ride safe!

[Fizzy Rascal]

Welcome- and Merry Christmas!

Great bike, that PCX. Lots of love for it in these forums, and many drivers that have had (or HAVE) both. If you have questions, there are a lot of good users here that can answer just about anything you can possibly throw at them. The PCX side of this forum, in "General" has an absolute wealth of info on them. Good browsing, and ride safe!

Thank you.

I've been busy reading plenty on here - loads of questions already answered thanks.

[willajabir]

You're so lucky, my wife says I can only have one pony in the stable at any given time. So I change every year or two. welcome and look forward to seeing your own input.

[you you]

You're so lucky, my wife says I can only have one pony in the stable at any given time. So I change every year or two. welcome and look forward to seeing your own input.

Get a new wife?

Or a pony?

[Fizzy Rascal]

Thanks again guys.

Vive La France - or at least, viva France not celebrating Boxing Day - it meant the dealerships were open today.

I took this black Forza for a 20 minute run . . .



I'm only slight (and getting on a bit in years ) - I found it a *bit* heavy at slow speeds but nice and 'planted' at speeds - I have to be honest, I wasn't/am not as 'in love' as I was/am with the PCX - it really was love at first sight with the PCX. I'm not sure if it's the one for me.



I found the seat a bit 'wide' too - anyone else? My thighs ended up on it as well as my bum.

I then went to another dealership and tried this baby Burgman out (please don't hate me ) - it's a 200 'Executive' . . . it 'fit' me much better and was much easier (lighter) at lower speeds - but it didn't feel *that* much quicker than my PCX - obviously it IS quicker - but not torquey quick like the Forza - I was very impressed at how the Forza accelerated.





So, I'm now left with more questions than answers. ???? ???? HELP!!!

[Mel46]

Have you tried a Burgman 400? We have both a B400 and the 2013 PCX 150. We ride side by side most of the time. If I were just going to do inner city riding I would choose the PCX because of its manuverability , but if I were planning on occasional road trips it would be the 400 or a change out of the seat on the PCX. That hump is horrible. In fact, we did change out the seat. Now my wife loves her PCX and I love my Burgman.When the Forza came out we went to the dealer to try one out. My opinion is that the seat is wide...too wide for my comfort, but some people on this forum like it that way. To me, if they had copied the PCX seat it would have been better. Unfortunately neither of us like the dashboard on the Forza. Maybe it is just us. It just seemed to be too cramped in that area. To add to that, my wife could not touch the ground on the Forza, so it struck out for what we wanted. The new Burgman 200 may be what we want, but we will have to wait until it arrives in the United States before we try it. Like I said though, others on this forum find the Forza to be a great bike. To each their own.

[willajabir]

Yes on Forza seat width. That was the first thing (after sitting on it) that I noticed. And I am an ex-Burgman owner, so yes it is like touring car with plenty of storage which is my one disappointment with the Forza.
I chose the Forza over the PCX because I ride on roads that the PCX isn't legal on here in the states. The USA is a huge motorcycle country and us scooter trash, as they call us, are in the minority.
But, it all comes down to what you, Fizzy, want for your own riding style and requirements.
Either way, we wish you enjoyment with your choices. The BurgmanUSA forum is great and does have international members regardless of it's name.
They are more active than this board and very informed group.

[Fizzy Rascal]

Have you tried a Burgman 400? We have both a B400 and the 2013 PCX 150. We ride side by side most of the time. If I were just going to do inner city riding I would choose the PCX because of its manuverability , but if I were planning on occasional road trips it would be the 400 or a change out of the seat on the PCX. That hump is horrible. In fact, we did change out the seat. Now my wife loves her PCX and I love my Burgman.When the Forza came out we went to the dealer to try one out. My opinion is that the seat is wide...too wide for my comfort, but some people on this forum like it that way. To me, if they had copied the PCX seat it would have been better. Unfortunately neither of us like the dashboard on the Forza. Maybe it is just us. It just seemed to be too cramped in that area. To add to that, my wife could not touch the ground on the Forza, so it struck out for what we wanted. The new Burgman 200 may be what we want, but we will have to wait until it arrives in the United States before we try it. Like I said though, others on this forum find the Forza to be a great bike. To each their own.

Thanks for that Mel.

My only concern about the Burgman 400 is that it's even heavier than the Forza - although sitting on one (B400) actually seems to 'fit' me better (the dealership had one, but it wasn't/isn't road registered, so I never got chance to ride it.)

Where I live is all very rural with country 'lanes' and lots of twists and bends and hills . . . the PCX is great for this - but when I do get on the odd long straight (fast) road it can start to feel a bit *light* (if that makes sense?) - so I'm looking for something a bit more 'planted' for longer runs - but not necessarily a 'big' tourer.

I may try and find a dealer with a 400 I can try - although I suspect it too might be a bit 'heavy' at slower and twisty speeds.

I'll let you know.

Thanks again.

PS: The Burgman 200 is a fine scoot in my opinion.

[Fizzy Rascal]

Yes on Forza seat width. That was the first thing (after sitting on it) that I noticed. And I am an ex-Burgman owner, so yes it is like touring car with plenty of storage which is my one disappointment with the Forza.
I chose the Forza over the PCX because I ride on roads that the PCX isn't legal on here in the states. The USA is a huge motorcycle country and us scooter trash, as they call us, are in the minority.
But, it all comes down to what you, Fizzy, want for your own riding style and requirements.
Either way, we wish you enjoyment with your choices. The BurgmanUSA forum is great and does have international members regardless of it's name.
They are more active than this board and very informed group.

Thank you . . . I'll let you know what I decide on.

[Mel46]

By the way, the 400 does great on twists and turns. We took it to the Georgia dragon's tail on Highway 60, with 20 miles of twisting roads. It is a great bike for that, though my wife had a lot more fun with her little PCX. Still, we had Burgman 400s and 650s doing the run and I have to say that my 400 was doing a bit better than the 650s because they kept hitting their center stands as they took the steep curves. I have hit the center stand a few times as well but not as much as the 650s did. Georgia and the Carolinas have some really twisty roads and hills, ideal for bikes.

[Fizzy Rascal]

By the way, the 400 does great on twists and turns. We took it to the Georgia dragon's tail on Highway 60, with 20 miles of twisting roads. It is a great bike for that, though my wife had a lot more fun with her little PCX. Still, we had Burgman 400s and 650s doing the run and I have to say that my 400 was doing a bit better than the 650s because they kept hitting their center stands as they took the steep curves. I have hit the center stand a few times as well but not as much as the 650s did. Georgia and the Carolinas have some really twisty roads and hills, ideal for bikes.

Thanks Mel,

More food for thought - I will try and find one to test-ride.

[MichRocks]

Good ride report. And, NO, you can't get in trouble here for cheating!!! These should be all about having fun, whatever you choose.

Not overly surprised at the Burg 200 acceleration; they call it a 200cc like the 279cc Forza is called a 300, but if my calculations are correct, the bore x stroke calculates to be really 166cc, so it isn't that much larger than a true 150cc. If they were thinking along the same lines like the Forza engineers, they also probably tuned it for top end speed vs acceleration for a smoother ride. From the standpoint of weight, I migrated 'down' from a 528lb bike, so the Forza seemed light to me- I hadn't considered impressions from the other direction. That said, the 422lbs of the Forza will be 'heavy' compared to the PCX which hits a bullseye for so many people. One can get used to the weight quickly and adjust riding technique, but if the ergonomics are wrong, don't buy it- that ruins the whole experience. I have oft heard people say that the 400 Burgmans have great ergonomics, so it may be a good ride to try. There is a head-to-head spec sheet for the two bikes at http://www.myhondaforza.com. It doesn't show the overall length of the Forza which is 85.2 in.

Regardless, the extra weight really helps in speed though, and makes the scooter ride even smoother. Cruising at speed is what you want, or else why go for the extra ccs? There is no perfect bike, just do like your doing and try out as many rides as you can, Suzuki, Kymco, Honda, etc. and one will rise to the top of your wish list.

Enjoy, and keep the riding reports coming along. I will be interested to see what you get, regardless of what it is!!

[Fizzy Rascal]

Good ride report. And, NO, you can't get in trouble here for cheating!!! These should be all about having fun, whatever you choose.

Not overly surprised at the Burg 200 acceleration; they call it a 200cc like the 279cc Forza is called a 300, but if my calculations are correct, the bore x stroke calculates to be really 166cc, so it isn't that much larger than a true 150cc. If they were thinking along the same lines like the Forza engineers, they also probably tuned it for top end speed vs acceleration for a smoother ride. From the standpoint of weight, I migrated 'down' from a 528lb bike, so the Forza seemed light to me- I hadn't considered impressions from the other direction. That said, the 422lbs of the Forza will be 'heavy' compared to the PCX which hits a bullseye for so many people. One can get used to the weight quickly and adjust riding technique, but if the ergonomics are wrong, don't buy it- that ruins the whole experience. I have oft heard people say that the 400 Burgmans have great ergonomics, so it may be a good ride to try. There is a head-to-head spec sheet for the two bikes at http://www.myhondaforza.com. It doesn't show the overall length of the Forza which is 85.2 in.

Regardless, the extra weight really helps in speed though, and makes the scooter ride even smoother. Cruising at speed is what you want, or else why go for the extra ccs? There is no perfect bike, just do like your doing and try out as many rides as you can, Suzuki, Kymco, Honda, etc. and one will rise to the top of your wish list.

Enjoy, and keep the riding reports coming along. I will be interested to see what you get, regardless of what it is!!

Hi, and thanks for the 'head to head' link. But at nearly 500lbs I think the 400 Burgman is gonna be too heavy for me (at slower speeds/tight manouvres.) though.

I think you're right, if something doesn't feel 'right', it will ruin the fun. My PCX just felt it 'fit' like my 'favourite trainers', the minute I rode it. In fairness, the 200 Burgman Exec fitted me just nice and the weight and manouvreability was pretty much spot on too. I think I just hoped it would be a bit quicker was all. As you say (write) there is no 'perfect bike' - there's always a 'trade off', I guess?

A friend of mine has a Daelim S300 and swears by it - they're Korean (I think?) which puts me off even trying one - I'm not being a snob - and I remember British bikers turning their noses up a Jap bikes in the 60s and 70s in much the same way folk do now about Chinese and other Far Eastern stuff - I just think that for now, I'd prefer one of the 'better known' manufacturers - especially the Big 3 from Japan. I own a lot of classic (mostly show) bikes and they're all Yamaha, Suzuki and Honda - I know where I am with them.

I think I need to go back and try the 200 Baby Burger on the Autoroute (Motorway/Freeway) for a couple of junctions.

[Fizzy Rascal]

Have you tried a Burgman 400? We have both a B400 and the 2013 PCX 150. We ride side by side most of the time. If I were just going to do inner city riding I would choose the PCX because of its manuverability , but if I were planning on occasional road trips it would be the 400 or a change out of the seat on the PCX. That hump is horrible. In fact, we did change out the seat. Now my wife loves her PCX and I love my Burgman.When the Forza came out we went to the dealer to try one out. My opinion is that the seat is wide...too wide for my comfort, but some people on this forum like it that way. To me, if they had copied the PCX seat it would have been better. Unfortunately neither of us like the dashboard on the Forza. Maybe it is just us. It just seemed to be too cramped in that area. To add to that, my wife could not touch the ground on the Forza, so it struck out for what we wanted. The new Burgman 200 may be what we want, but we will have to wait until it arrives in the United States before we try it. Like I said though, others on this forum find the Forza to be a great bike. To each their own.

Hey Mel

(Happy New Year)

I just test-rode a high-miler (kilometres) 2009 Burgman 400 - it was a bit 'tired' and had a strange transmission vibration - but that aside, despite its extra weight, I found it easier to manouvre at slow speeds than the Forza - just the seating position and shape of the seat really.

I had to test an old 'un as they didn't have any new models road registered. This was a tired old 'trade-in' they had out back. But anyway, I'm guessing the new ones will ride similarly?

It's given me further food for thought - I'm visiting a Kwakker dealer on Thursday to take a look at a J300.

As an aside, while I was there, a guy rocked up on a X10 - I'd never seen one in the 'flesh' (tupperware) before - seriously beautiful scooter in my opinion.

Either way, I'm gonna pass on the Forza I'm afraid.

[willajabir]

Fizzy,
I saw you posted on other boards almost the same info. It is good to get plenty of feed back.
It is better to pass when in doubt than to get something while wishing you had gotten another.
I've had 27 bikes (counting this Forza) and I love them all. 50cc scooters all the way to the 1800 GL.
The ones I loved, I rode a lot, the ones I didn't love as much, got just a few miles before selling/trading.
I would still enjoy hearing back from you on your next purchase with the pros/cons listed from your point of view.
Thanks for the reports of your experience so far.

[Fizzy Rascal]

Fizzy,
I saw you posted on other boards almost the same info. It is good to get plenty of feed back.
It is better to pass when in doubt than to get something while wishing you had gotten another.
I've had 27 bikes (counting this Forza) and I love them all. 50cc scooters all the way to the 1800 GL.
The ones I loved, I rode a lot, the ones I didn't love as much, got just a few miles before selling/trading.
I would still enjoy hearing back from you on your next purchase with the pros/cons listed from your point of view.
Thanks for the reports of your experience so far.

Hiya!

Yeah, Google led me to a few forums. I've only posted on two though.

I'll definitely post when I've bought something - and with an honest appraisal and an explanation as to why etc.

I own a fair few (classic) small bikes (including a whole load of FS1E 50s) and a few classic Lambrettas too - as you say (write) some I enjoy riding, others less so.

I LOVE my PCX - and I so wanted the Forza to be 'right' - sadly, it wasn't right for me. I just need to decide what to do about a 200cc-400cc scooter. I will buy one before January is out.

I'm actually quite enjoying the 'research'.

[Mel46]

I love my B400, and my wife loves riding it too....as the rider, not the passenger. However, she is small so the bike is a bit bulky for her. She absolutely loves the maneuverability of the PCX 150. Unfortunately it is just a bit under whelming at its topend. Another problem she has found is protection from the wind on her legs. The shape of the Burgman is ideal, and I think the 200 would be powerful enough, so I would love to road test a 200. Aside from that, the biggest consideration would be our uses. If we only want the scooter for local use, like around town only, we would keep the PCX. However, if we wanted to use the scooter for around town AND getting on the freeway ever so often, I think the B200 would be great. If we were only planning on riding in town occasionally, and planned on riding most of the time on the open road, we would get a B400 or something similar. Everyone needs to try before they buy, and figure out what they planned on using it for before buying one. I have friends who love their SYMs. Others love their Kymco. I knew I wanted a Burgman 400 many years ago. They 'unofficially' are considered the Cadillac of scooters. The reviews on them have all been great. They 'seem' to be bulky when you look at them, but once you start riding it, you realize why they have such a good reputation. If you can, test ride a new one. You will be impressed.

[Fizzy Rascal]

I love my B400, and my wife loves riding it too....as the rider, not the passenger. However, she is small so the bike is a bit bulky for her. She absolutely loves the maneuverability of the PCX 150. Unfortunately it is just a bit under whelming at its topend. Another problem she has found is protection from the wind on her legs. The shape of the Burgman is ideal, and I think the 200 would be powerful enough, so I would love to road test a 200. Aside from that, the biggest consideration would be our uses. If we only want the scooter for local use, like around town only, we would keep the PCX. However, if we wanted to use the scooter for around town AND getting on the freeway ever so often, I think the B200 would be great. If we were only planning on riding in town occasionally, and planned on riding most of the time on the open road, we would get a B400 or something similar. Everyone needs to try before they buy, and figure out what they planned on using it for before buying one. I have friends who love their SYMs. Others love their Kymco. I knew I wanted a Burgman 400 many years ago. They 'unofficially' are considered the Cadillac of scooters. The reviews on them have all been great. They 'seem' to be bulky when you look at them, but once you start riding it, you realize why they have such a good reputation. If you can, test ride a new one. You will be impressed.

My local Suzuki dealer has a B400 'Executive' in pearl white - it's gorgeous, but not 'road ready' - so I can't test ride it. Hence taking out the old 'trade-in' today (at the Honda dealership where I tried the Forza - yes, confusing, I know. )

I'm guessing a 2013/2014 B400 should ride similarly?

I'm still fancying the B200 Exec if I'm honest. That's at the Suzuki dealership and I have a choice of that or a new B400.

[Mel46]

Both are ideal choices. I don't think you can go wrong on either. By the way, since we don't get 'Executive' anything here except the B650, what does it look like? I would love to see some pictures of either the B200 Executive or B400 Executive. I know that the 650 has electric folding mirrors or some such, but what else is there to them? I am dying to see the B200 if they ever send one over. I know that it has been approved for import but so far I haven't heard anything else.