Messed up valve clearance

[yttikeiram]

I just attempted a valve clearance, and everything went great until my husband's bike started smoking and oil leaked.

I'm looking for suggestions on what went wrong, and if I should just send it to the dealer to fix. My husband has a cousin who is a mechanic, and even though he usually works with cars, I'm thinking maybe it might be better to just go to him first.

I have some thoughts on where I went wrong. I tripled checked the valve clearance. I know the top valve is the intake, and the bottom is the exhaust. The piston was at TDC, there was slack on the rocker arm (I even checked it again and saw how it has no slack when it's not at TDC, and I put it back in that position) and the fan was lined up with the crankcase. I think this has to do with the gasket sealant. I got permatex grey. I applied a good amount, but not overly thick. I applied it to the correct place. I checked to make sure the gasket was in properly, but I think I messed that up. The scooter was also run less than 24 hours after I did this, so I think it's possible it didn't cure. My husband described a loud thudding noise when it started to smoke, but before it did, it was running a little louder than normal. Is it possible there can be a lot of damage from the oil leaking due to the gasket not being applied properly? Does this sound like the problem I'm having?

I feel bad for my husband. He had to work at midnight,and now he has to get the damn thing towed back here. Luckily, he literally made it a block away from his work before it gave out that bad.

Any tips for next time? I know that there were hoses in my way. In the manual, I didn't see any step about removing the fuel line (I'm assuming that's what was in my way) so I worked around it. This caused me to not be able to get the cover out easily, so when I had to put the sealant on and put it back in, I was very nervous about it.

[dasshreddar]

Loud thud not sure about that Oil leaking on to the exhaust would smoke...
You don't need to remove the fuel line, and as long as your gasket surfaces are all smooth and clean you don't need any sealant.
any pics?

[yttikeiram]

I should clarify what he meant now (he was freaking out and over did it on the noises, lol) He described the sound as a loud "DUN DUN DUN DUN DUN DUN". The oil sprayed the back wheel, on the center stand/kick stand, and then he saw smoke. This happened as soon as he decelerated and went over a curb slowly.

I don't have any pics yet. I will get some as soon as the scoot is towed here. I do know that the surfaces were very clean. There was only a tad bit of previous sealant on the gasket which i thoroughly scraped off.

I'm not sure if this helps, but his experience seemed exactly like this: http://hondapcx.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t ... ket#p17261

When I played the video in the link above, my husband said the scooter had that tapping noise earlier when he first rode it. Also, the engine did not give out at all, he simply turned it off immediately.

[Mgalutia88]

Remove the spark plug access cover to take a peek at the valve cover to see if the gasket is leaking.

[yttikeiram]

Thanks guys. I will post pictures if things get more complicated. When I checked it out yesterday, there was oil around the gasket. It also looked like it sprayed out from there. Then, I took a screwdriver to see if it was loose, and the whole gasket cover had a big gap very easily.

How did you guys make sure the gasket was in there? I'm pretty sure the bolts are torqued properly. When I put it in, the gasket seemed like it was fitting in fine. I might just order a new one.

[Alibally]

If the gasket looks like it's leaking the best get a new one. There is a sealant for it as well. I'll look at the manual and see we're it goes.

[Alibally]

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1398159600.235565.jpg (151.21 KiB) Viewed 3313 times

Hope this helps.

[maddiedog]

That sounds like something went seriously wrong if he heard thudthudthud and oil leaked. That's way worse than a gasket.

If it sounded at all like coins rattling around during the thudding, he dropped a valve, and will likely need a whole new top end. He could need worse if the block cracked. :/

Can you disassemble the bike and get pictures?

[Mgalutia88]

If it's under warranty go to the dealer

[yttikeiram]

OK guys. I opened it up again. I found out why oil leaked. Well, all 4 of the bolts on the cover were loose. They were so loose that I could undo them with my hand.

I thought I torqued them properly, but I didn't have a torque wrench. I tightened them what I would consider to be pretty good. Eh. Is there a reason they would be loose? Did I not tighten them enough? I also rechecked the valves, and they are completely correct and within spec.

Just to be completely sure, this is TDC, right? (The rocker arm moved, and when the other mark is lined up, the rocker arm can't move. I only adjusted the valves when they were in this position, which I'm still 99.99999% sure is TDC)

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So, here are other pictures I've taken. I don't see any visible cracks in anything. I also didn't see any cracks in the cover, and the gasket looked perfect.

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Under the valves is where some of the oil was leaking. I'm not sure if it's coming from a few different places. Given how loose the cover bolts were, I think all of the oil sprayed out from there.

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So, does anyone have any ideas about why the bolts came loose? Did I torque too much, too little, etc? The sealant worked fine, by the way. The noise was also more like a tapping than a thud. I questioned my husband more. He said it sounded like some sort of clicking or tapping. *sigh* If all of this is because I didn't torque my bolts correctly, all I can say is...I can't believe I did that. LOL

Also, I would like to fix this myself if possible. I mean, out in SoCal, I'm pretty sure a valve adjustment would be a few hundred. It still has the warranty, but would it be void because I messed this up? Also, does anyone know how to clean all of the oil off of everything? Just wipe it down, or do I need some sort of cleaner?

[dasshreddar]

Yeah that appears to be TDC (is your fan notch lined up also?)

try a drop of blue thread locker on the 4 bolts and tighten to 7ft lbs.
Make sure you can see the gasket stick out all around the cover and
I would just take the time and wipe all the oil off by hand.
don't put all the plastics on until you know you solved the oil leak issue.

[you you]

The engine looks brand new. Why did you check the valves?

[DAB]

Being a 4 stroke engine, there will be 2 TDC for each cycle. One is where the combustion takes place and the other where the gases are forced out. It is important to get the correct TDC.

http://www.animatedengines.com/otto.html

[yttikeiram]

Thanks, DAB. I did see two different marks on the camshaft. The one I showed is the position where (sorry, I have a lack of terminology) there is slack on the rocker arms and the place where I put my feeler gauge is open for me to measure. I'm assuming this is the TDC on the compression stroke, correct? Thanks for that link, by the way. Very informative.

I will try loc-tite, Das.

you you-This scoot only has a little over 1000 miles so far. I wanted to check the valves to ensure they were within spec since some of them seem to be out of spec when they come out of the factory. This is the first valve clearance.

[you you]

Thanks, DAB. I did see two different marks on the camshaft. The one I showed is the position where (sorry, I have a lack of terminology) there is slack on the rocker arms and the place where I put my feeler gauge is open for me to measure. I'm assuming this is the TDC on the compression stroke, correct? Thanks for that link, by the way. Very informative.

I will try loc-tite, Das.

you you-This scoot only has a little over 1000 miles so far. I wanted to check the valves to ensure they were within spec since some of them seem to be out of spec when they come out of the factory. This is the first valve clearance.

Where they out of spec?

[yttikeiram]

The intake was out of spec if I remember right. I think it was like .07mm. The exhaust was within spec but tight. The scooter was sounding fine, though. Once I get this issue fixed, I'll probably check them again when the second valve adjustment is to be done per the manual, just to see if they moved. If they don't move, I will probably go longer in between checking them.

[maddiedog]

How'd the cleanup go?

I typically use old rags to sop up oil, then just burn them afterwards or throw them away. No need to use any cleaning products, it's an engine and likes being oily.

[you you]

How'd the cleanup go?

I typically use old rags to sop up oil, then just burn them afterwards or throw them away. No need to use any cleaning products, it's an engine and likes being oily.

Cat litter is good for spilled oil

[yttikeiram]

Thanks for that tip, you you.

Everyone, I totally forgot to update this! It turns out the gasket really just wasn't sealed right or something. After a day of my husband freaking out that I might have broken his scooter, I fixed it! If anyone has an issue with the gasket coming off when they try to put the cover back on, try putting some sealant on the gasket where it goes into the cover. A very tiny amount left to dry for an hour assured that I didn't get it out of place this time. We ran it on the center stand for 10 minutes and the oil burned off. Then my husband took it for a short ride. It's perfect! The only issue now is....

The seat won't latch, LOL! We're going to see if we can fix it tomorrow. It seems to be stuck in the closed position. My husband was all excited to ride now that the cover is fine, but then that happened

Thanks for the help everyone! I'm glad to know I didn't mess up the scoot in a major way. I can't wait to do more maintenance.

[kramnala58]

... After a day of my husband freaking out that I might have broken his scooter, I fixed it! ...

I love this post. It is so counter culture for the wife to be doing the repairs. Good on you!!! Keep at it.

Glad the repair went well and wasn't anything major. Hopefully the seat will get sorted out in no time and you will be good to go!